Employment tribunal hearing coming up

[Andyorch]

Have they acknowledged service of the claim ?

[Lorenz]

No, not that I can see on mcol.

Should there be a note there I suppose if they acknowledged. 

[FTMDave]

So go for default judgement tomorrow.

Let us know how you get on.

[Lorenz]

It says:

"The following errors have occurred: 

1. You can only request Judgement by default if the required number of days have passed"

But it's been 20 days now.

Issued date is 04/07/2023.

What's going on?

[FTMDave]

Either there is a glitch or they have acknowledged service, which adds another 14 days to the deadline.

Have another go tomorrow and please report beck.

Can you copy & paste the status of the claim from MCOL?

 

[Lorenz]

Wouldn't it show on mcol if they'd acknowledged the claim?

[FTMDave]

Yes, it should, thus why I asked you to copy & paste the MCOL status of claim.

[Lorenz]

Ok, thanks.

Got to do it tomorrow because I can only access it on the pc.

Thanks again.

 

I tried again this morning and it let me proceed.

Judgement now requested.

Let's see what happens. 

Thanks everyone!

[FTMDave]

Well done!

So what is your attitude towards the company and the SAR now?  You mentioned in an earlier post that after the first judgement they disclosed a few "bits and pieces".  Do you still consider that they have not fully respected the SAR request?

And do you have evidence of their failure?

Because it's perfectly possible to issue a third Letter of Claim and to keep the pressure on them. 

[Lorenz]

Well, the 2 main points are:

1. They claim that when I showed them my passport (did this twice), they took a copy, marked as "original seen" and sent to hr.

Then hr shreds these copies, but there's no trace or note that this has happened or that hr ever received the copies.

Also, in the first disclosure they sent me a copy of a previous expired passport, so it doesn't look like they shred them.

They've denied sending this passport copy, but the disclosure is on a .zip file, so they can't really deny it.

Now they've asked for my passport again, so it looks like they lost the last 2 copies.

2. They insist in saying that they were not passed any document regarding my flexible working agreement when they took over under TUPE. 

After the first ccj they disclosed a rosta that I was doing in 2017, before the fwa.

I asked many times how they knew what shifts I (and everyone else) was doing at point of TUPE transfer but they refused to answer.

Basically they want to avoid admitting that I've been doing fixed shifts since late 2017.

 

These are the 2 things that I think are not compliant with dpa.

What do you think?

 

Also, despite 3 grievances and an employment tribunal case,  they claim that there is no communication whatsoever between the 15 people involved, including hr, directors and managers all working in different locations.

Is that possible?

With all the turmoil I caused, nobody ever sent an email to discuss this?

[Nicky Boy]

With all the turmoil I caused, nobody ever sent an email to discuss this?

I'd say it's unbelievable.

 

From memory of my OH's tribunal case, I seem to remember that there is a right to inspect your own (original) entire personnel file in person?

Could be interesting to look through the file yourself.

Maybe request this in writing?

[Emmzzi]

2 hours ago, Nicky Boy said:

With all the turmoil I caused, nobody ever sent an email to discuss this?

I'd say it's unbelievable.

 

From memory of my OH's tribunal case, I seem to remember that there is a right to inspect your own (original) entire personnel file in person?

Could be interesting to look through the file yourself.

Maybe request this in writing?

I haven't used paper for personnel files in ages - too difficult with GDPR, and what needs shredding when. Company dependent, but I would not expect it to be a thing. However, the data storage guidelines may be a useful thing to get hold of?(Who stores what and where, for what purpose, and how long? No actual documents, just policy.) I would happily share that with any employee concerned about data.

[FTMDave]

With all the turmoil I caused, nobody ever sent an email to discuss this?

I would say that, on the balance of probabilities, it's unbelievable too.

And that is in the abstract.  There is also to consider that for months & months the company refused to comply with a SAR despite numerous reminders, had the iCO decide against them, lost twice in court for SAR distress claims and only finally made limited disclosure after the first court defeat.  It's pretty obvious they are hiding information.

I would keep the heat on with a third LoC.  You know the drill.  If you do do so, remember to make the distress period from the one stated on the second LoC till 26 July, say.

 

[Lorenz]

Thanks everyone. 

I expect an email in the next few days inviting me to a meeting to discuss this.

Considering the runaround they subjected me to and the fact that minutes never match what's said (they claimed i agreed to things when in fact i totally disagreed), I'm only going to attend if they allow my husband to be present as a translator and supporter.

They'll never allow that again.

The only time they let my husband attend a meeting he made mince of them.

When he asked for the hand written notes at the end of the meeting they refused and he threw the book at them in the form of acas guidelines.

They weren't pleased!

[Nicky Boy]

Hopefully, you've learnt to take your own meeting notes from now on.

Emmzii, that's interesting about document storage. What do you do about handwritten notes from meetings? Scan them to pdf?

My OH works for one of the big 4 supermarkets and they definitely still use paper. She's actually seen her own personnel folder.

Anyway Lorenz, sounds like asking for their personnel data storage policy could be useful. 

[Lorenz]

They have a mix of paper and digital files.

I will ask for their personnel data storage policy, but from a company that doesn't even have a social media policy, I don't expect anything positive.

I tried to take my own notes and I was accused of secretly recording the meeting because they were too accurate.

I'm sure some of you think I'm making this all up, but rest assured that it's all true, I swear on my kids life.

[Nicky Boy]

Been there Lorenz.

"Non contemporary" documents appeared during Oh's tribunal process.

Don't trust business owners during legal disputes. They don't want to lose money.

[Lorenz]

BTW, I agreed with my husband to sent an email to the tribunal to withdraw the claim, considering the legal advice we received. 

[Nicky Boy]

So, you're just continuing with the SAR out of principle?

[Lorenz]

Why not?

Genuinely,  I knew they would never release those documents otherwise the ET claim would've been totally lost for them.

Now, as my husband anticipated,  they would either leave me alone or start messing me about with change of shifts again.

In that case, this time I will not agree to anything, continue my shifts and when they sack me take them to ET with a much stronger case.

Edited July 26, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Emmzzi]

On 25/07/2023 at 19:35, Nicky Boy said:

 

Emmzii, that's interesting about document storage. What do you do about handwritten notes from meetings? Scan them to pdf?

 

We do. Although we also sometimes do a video meeting and just have a recording of it, instead. I have no fear of recordings because we don't say stupid things at them!

re: discussing things by email: my managers know they get a severe taking to for that. The most you will see is "case conference" in their diary. When we have discussed what us legal and what is not, then we will start documenting things, having got any nonsensical ideas out of the way first. Never put your ignorance in writing, is a decent rule.

That is not to say we won't expedite a situation with for example an agreement to part ways as friends, instead of following procedure. But I will have discussed options with managers in private - like coaching for them - before we get there.

[FTMDave]

4 hours ago, Lorenz said:

Why not?

Genuinely,  I knew they would never release those documents otherwise the ET claim would've been totally lost for them.

Certainly make sure you get your money for the second judgement.

Up to you if you think it's worth continuing with a third LoC, given you've dropped the ET claim

[Lorenz]

@Emmzzi That would only happen in a company run by people with common sense.

Let's not forget who we're dealing with here.

[Lorenz]

Hi everyone, yesterday I applied for a warrant (£83).

The judgement was issued on 27/07/2023 and they didn't pay anything. 

They didn't respond to any court communication, so most likely they will claim that once again they didn't receive anything. 

I wrote to them once questioning how bizarrely royal mail selected important mail addressed to them and shredded it.

They said they would've complained to royal mail about it 

My understanding is that the ccj will now stay on record because they didn't satisfy it within a month, is this correct?

And I know the consequences for an individual with a ccj on records, but what happens to companies?

Do they get bad credit rating and have any sort of trouble?

I hope so.

Thanks

[FTMDave]

Yes, you're right, they're stuck with a CCJ now.

It should be fun at work when the bailiffs show up.