UKPC/DCBL claimform - Forbury Retail Park Phase 2, Kenavon Drive, Reading, RG1 3HS ***Claim Discontinued***

[mhf]

Initial message was sent on 8th August '22

I sent another on 24th August

I got their unhelpful reply on 30th August

 

Yes, all before the court claim was issued.

[dx100uk]

ok i was worried there!

 

dx

[mhf]

I am probably over thinking this, but would the normal defence approach apply here? My biggest concern is on the face of it it looks like I have just ignored it, but with no PCN or NTK does this adversely affect my approach?

[dx100uk]

std defence.

 

make them wriggle.

 

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, mhf said:

As I have previously stated I was parked legitimately, which I can evidence.

That is nowhere as bad as I had feared and they may well miss this one sentence in the midst of all the correspondence.

 

DFS will not be the landowner and will not have had the power to cancel the invoice.  That is not in doubt.  But the point is that they lied to you and pretended they had the power to intervene.  The CEO's address has already been posted in post 23.  However, complaining won't help you with the court case, it was suggested simply to kick up a stink for the sales person who lied to you.

 

Just file the standard defence when it comes to it, the defence covers all bases.

[mhf]

Thank you dx and FTMD for your responses, much appreciated. I'll get to work on it, ready to file at the right time (not too early!).

[lookinforinfo]

The CEO of DFS is                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

tim.stacey@dfs.co.uk

 

Perhaps it might be better to wait until the CPR request arrives so that you can see what address they were using. In addition please find out from the DVLA when UKPC asked for your address and what address they were given. 

 

 

[mhf]

I've contacted DVLA and requested it via a SAR. It can take up to 30 days though.

[FTMDave]

Recently the DVLA have been pretty decent with a couple of Caggers and replied in a few days.

[mhf]

Got a reasonably prompt answer to my CPR31.14 request, which includes the PCNs I never received and a copy of their contract with the land owners.

[dx100uk]

scan everything up bothsides to ONE multipage pdf

read our upload guide carefully

 

[mhf]

I have managed to get everything into a single pdf's,

CPR31-14_Response.pdf

 

Contract between Landowner and UKPC

 

contrac t.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

The contract appears not to be valid.

 

It is supposed to be between RBS pension fund and UKPC. But it is not even signed by Jones lang Lasalle who say they are for RBS and there is no agreement from RBS that JLL can act on their behalf. Anna Oong who was working for JLL then has not signed the contract nor has Robert Read from UKPC. 

 

In addition the first is a surveyor and the other the National Sales manager.

 

In the light of this being a huge pension fund involvement it would be expected especially as this is not a simple one page type of contract that it was signed by directors and both signatories having their signatures witnessed by independent persons and their names printed as well so as to identify them.

 

the contract has not been properly executed. the Court cannot enforce its stipulations. UKPC are required to have a valid contract to comply with PoFa . They don't.

 

Kind of lucky for you since being there for almost four hours doesn't give you much of a defence. otherwise.

 

Does the address on the original PCN bear your current address.

 

I think you are checking with the DVLA to see what address they gave them.

Just a  double check on UKPC since there are doubts about their integrity I understand.

[mhf]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

The original PCN does have the correct address on it, odd that I never received it but have received all subsequent letters from their legal teams.

 

This is the frustrating thing about it, it may seem like it was wanton disregard but for the duration we were genuine customers of one of the retail outlets which is why I am really annoyed that DFS left me high and dry with it.

 

I assume that an overstay is a more challenging situation to defend against?

 

The date on the PCN suggests it was sent within the required time frame as well.

[lookinforinfo]

Well if you never received the original one, it would be quite easy for UKPC to make a new PCN that complies with the Act..............................

[Nicky Boy]

But do they have proof of posting like everyone on the forum is advised to obtain when sending mail?

 

[mhf]

This is my concern as well, however, once DVLA respond to the SAR I should be able to see if the date on the PCN is actually accurate or not... there is always a risk of course that they requested details immediately and then sat on it for some time and backdated the PCN to ensure compliance...

[mhf]

I have read through some threads on here and have put together my first crack at a defence - taking head to keep it brief and not go mad on adding too many points.

I did read CPR 16.4 and 16.5(3) to make sure those statements were accurate before adding them.

 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. The Defendant was the recorded keeper of vehicle XXXX XXX, at the time of the alleged incident. The Claimant is not in a position to state if the Defendant was the driver at the time.

 

2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3. There are no contractual costs and interest cannot be accrued on a speculative charge, further it is denied that the Claimant’s signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

 

4. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.

 

5. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 
 
6. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to evidence its cause of action and contractual costs and what loss it has suffered. 

 

7. The Claimant is further put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

 

8. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[mhf]

I am going to post the defence today, just to be sure, is there anything that stands out as being wrong with what I have?

As always, any help greatly appreciated. 

[Nicky Boy]

The usual advice is to use the standard defence "as is".

It's specific enough to effectively say "Yes, I'm gonna defend!", without giving anything away.

Don't give them any clues at all about what you may put in a detailed witness statement further down the line.

 

Q2) How do I defend? section in the sticky...

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[mhf]

Quick (possibly silly) question... when I post my defence on the MCOL site, should I add the additional contact details (phone, email) or leave it blank?

Thanks

[dx100uk]

It's for the court you give them everything they ask for 

 

But filing your defence doesn't ask nor need those within it 

 

Dx

[mhf]

Thanks dx for confirming. 

 

Defence submitted. I guess now I await further direction from the Courts?

[FTMDave]

If you read through this thread, you'll see all the stages of the court procedure and will know what will happen next  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments

[mhf]

Hi.

There has been a bit of a lull in activity recently.

 

I got a letter from the Courts saying the defence had been served to the Claimant and they need to respond within 28 days. No further comms since.

 

In other news, the DVLA SAR info has come back.

UKPC Ltd requested my details on 4/1/22 and their speculative invoice, a copy of which they sent me as part of the CPR31.14 request, was dated 5/1/22, so unfortunately it seems they have done everything within requisite time. The only thing they may not have done is actually post it, or Royal Mail may have neglected to deliver it! 

 

Phoned the court to make sure I hadn't missed anything and have been advised that they are waiting for the Claimant to respond.