Browns car company - Essex : faulty used car -court claim issued

[BankFodder]

This is an extremely lengthy and involved particulars of claim and in my view it could be a lot shorter .

One of the problems of having such a long particulars of claim is that it will have to be served in two lots. They will have to be the initial claim and then you will have to follow up with a more detailed particulars.

 

You don't need this kind of complication .

 

I am assuming that the dealer is fully aware of all the details of your complaint. Correct?

 

 

 

[toystorydog]

Thankyou for both advise and comments, they are very helpful and practical. I'll rework on it and post back.

 

The dealer has all the fault details but not the claim amount details like the road tax, insurance, jump starter and interest but only the purchase price. I was afraid If I miss anything I would like to withdraw and resubmit again.

 

 

[BankFodder]

If you withdraw a claim and try to resubmit it then you will have to pay a new claim fee.

 

 

Also, there can be the question of the wasted costs of the other side although this would be minimal

[toystorydog]

Dear,

 

I have kept the essentials of the claim in the following four points. Please take a look to see if this edit is sufficient and appropriate as a "Particulars of Claim".

 

----Draft-----

1. On August 12, 2022, I purchased the vehicle Mini Countryman 2.0 SD All4 with the registration number WR63ESF from Browns Car Company, found through an online platform called Motors.co.uk. After contacting the seller by telephone, I inquired about the mechanical condition of the vehicle and confirmed the possibility of a refund if any major issues were to be found. I confirmed the purchase and placed a deposit of £200 via debit card. On August 16, 2022, the remaining balance was paid by bank transfer, and the vehicle was delivered to me on August 18, 2022.

 

2. Within four days after the vehicle was delivered, a number of significant faults were diagnosed by an independent garage and reported to the seller with photo evidence. I have notified the seller via email that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality, together with a short-term right to reject, a request for collection of the vehicle, and a full refund of the vehicle purchase price on August 22, 2022.

 

3. On October 10, 2022, the seller agreed to the refund request, and the vehicle was collected on October 18, 2022. However, the seller refused to process the refund, claiming that the reported faults could not be verified and that they were exempt from distance selling rules.

 

4. As a result of the above, I have suffered losses. These losses were calculated from the date that I was expecting to have the vehicle purchase cost refunded.

 

----End Draft-----

 

Thankyou for your time.

[BankFodder]

Quote

The claimant purchased a vehicle registration number XXX from the defendant car dealer for £ XXX .

The car was not a satisfactory quality. The defects were reported to the dealer within 4 days of purchase.  The dealer has been provided with all details and is fully aware. The dealer collected the vehicle and promised to reimburse The claimant but has since reneged on that promise and refuses any reimbursement.

The claimant has rejected the vehicle and claims full reimbursement under the short term right to reject in the consumer rights act 2015 plus costs £XXXX plus interest per s.69 County Courts Act 1984 plus court costs.

 

 

This is broadly the form that your particulars should take .

Keep it short.

We will add to it later on

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by BankFodder
Edits in red

[toystorydog]

Thankyou very much for the draft.

 

May I ask if I should keep using "claimant" and "defendant" in my particulars of claim or to use "I" and "seller"? or would either be more appropriate as a litigate in person?

 

Thank you in advance.

[BankFodder]

Either is fine.

Please can you detail all the costs you have incurred in respect of this vehicle – insurance – anything.

Please list it out in a tabulated fashion

[toystorydog]

Dear Bankfodder, Thankyou for the responds.

 

I have calculated the costs as below. While I am using the new (beta) MoneyClaim online platform, is it correct that since there is a separate section to input each individual claim amount, I don't have to restate it in the "Particulars of Claims"?

 

Vehicle purchase price                                 £8899
Transportation fee                                         £200
Johns Garage Diagnostic fee                      £30
BVS Brackley Ltd Diagnostic fee                 £40
Road Tax (Sept 2022 ~ Jul 2023)               £201.67
Motor Insurance (23 Aug ~ 18 Oct 22)      £130.59
Jump starter with air compressor              £99
Sub Total:                                                        £9600.26
Daily Interest calculated                               £2.10 per day

 

Also, regarding the claim amount, may I inquire as to the appropriate date for claiming interest? Is it from the date after my initial request for a refund, 14 days after my initial request date, 14 days after the vehicle collection, or the court claim date. The new (beta) MoneyClaim platform defaults to starting from the court claim submission date.

 

Thankyou for your time.

[toystorydog]

Happy new year all, wish everyone here had a relaxing holiday.

 

I have finally received a response from the official responds from seller thru the "Online Civil Money Claims". It was very long but seems responded only to one of the many reported faults which is the engine noise / timing belt issue. They did not responds to any other faults diagnosed and reported.

 

Seller has quoted old cases as their defense.

" 9. Further, the Defendant will rely on Bartlett v Sidney Marcus [1965] 1 WLR 1013, per Lord Denning:
“On the sale of a second-hand car, it is merchantable if it is in a usable condition, even if not perfect...A buyer should realise that when he buys a
second-hand car, defects may appear sooner or later and, in the absence of an express warranty otherwise, he has no redress.”
10. Moreover, the Defendant will rely upon the persuasive authority of Thain v Anniesland Trade Centre [1997] SLT (Sh Ct) 102, in which a second-
hand car was held to have been sold in a state of satisfactory quality, despite developing a catastrophic gearbox fault after two weeks use.

 

I wonder if it is appropriate to update the whole pdf document here for advise?

[BankFodder]

Please will you post up the defence document in PDF format .

Thank you

 

[toystorydog]

Thankyou BankFodder, please find in the attachment

354MC672-claim-response.pdf

[dx100uk]

that defence is crap actually says nothing really.

 

 

dx

[BankFodder]

Please can you post up a copy of the final particulars of claim which you used. There were so many edits et cetera, I'm not sure what the final version was.

Also, as far as I can see we lost sight of the distance selling rules and that hasn't been pleaded. That's a shame.

I've looked back over the thread and I see that you originally raise that issue with him and you were told that it didn't apply.

When you tell that in writing? If so can you please post the message which you received in respect of that.

Clearly the defendant has had some help in drafting this defence. This is definitely not his own work.

Don't worry there are lots of flaws but I'd like to see your original particulars of claim

[toystorydog]

Thankyou for the responds - dx100uk and BankFodder

 

The filed particulars of claim is as follow:

 

Reason for claim:
3.1. I purchased a vehicle registration number ....... from the seller (Browns Car Company Ltd) for £ 8899.
3.2. The car was not of satisfactory quality. The defects were reported to the seller within 4 days of purchase. The seller collected the vehicle and promised to reimburse the me, but has since reneged on that promise and refused any reimbursement.
3.3. I have rejected the vehicle and claims full reimbursement under the short term right to reject in the Consumer Rights Act of 2015.

 

And the email correspondent that I received from seller previously was as follow:

 

"We do not operate to distance sale regulations as it falls outside of our day-to-day business. We are not a predominate distance seller.

You can opt out of distance sale providing it isn't your main source of business.

 

Browns car company Ltd"

 

and

 

"CRA2015 AND distance sale are two different things they are not the same thing.

Yes you can opt out of distance sale regulations if it is not part of your day-to-day business.

I think we are just going round in circles.

We will sell the car on your behalf as we do not feel there is an issue or you can issue court proceedings.

There isn't much else to discuss.

 

Browns car company Ltd"

 

Please feel free to comment & advise.

[dx100uk]

well they cant opt out of (the old DSR) its part of CRA2015...end of...it all applies regardless.

[toystorydog]

Dear,

 

I have some progress updates about the case and a couple of questions.

The seller has employed a company named "Lawgistics Ltd." (A Legal experts from the motor trade) and made another "gesture of goodwill" offered the refund of the car's purchase price only. But requested that I withdraw the current court claim immediately. The email came three days before the district judge's order mentioned cancellation deadline.

Regarding the court procedure status: The small claims court had arranged a mediation session back in January; the seller had accepted it, but their representative failed to show up on the accepted time slot. Hence, the mediation had failed.

The court has made a judgement to hold a 30-minute hearing session via MS Teams for both parties. The case has now been transferred to my local court and is waiting to be scheduled for the hearing session.

 

I do not intend to accept this "goodwill gesture" because I do not know the legitimacy of the company "Lawgistics Ltd." and thus believe it is not legally binding.

 

I wonder if any experts here know about this company, "Lawgistics Ltd." What are the tricks they are playing here? Are these common strategies for these types of businesses? And lastly, what are your thoughts about their moves?

 

I wish you a wonderful weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

lawgistics are simple nwnf that sell themselves to the motor trade for a fee and a take of any settlement

type their name in here you'll see we know them.

 

pers id carry on for every penny.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Absolutely. Don't worry about lawgistics.

 

Stick to your guns

[toystorydog]

Thankyou both for your feedback.

 

I may be overthinking their logic and strategies, but the fact that the seller suddenly agreed to refund the vehicle purchase price at this point must mean they understood the chances of winning were not high; agreeing to settle via small court tribunal would be logical and most certain to minimise further loss due to incurring interest and vehicle depreciation.

 

Well, I shall get ready for the hearing session and find out what will happen.

[toystorydog]

Dear

 

I'd like to ask for further help to prepare my upcoming first hearing session and the evidence bundle to be submitted before the session?

 

I've read the "Preparing your court bundle," but the session is going to be conducted via MS Teams. I would like to ask if anyone can help by sharing the best way to prepare the documents package and send them to the court.

 

The main evidence and time line of what happened and the exchange of conversation were already submitted and summarized in the claim form. But the actual email conversation records have never been submitted, I believe I need to send all the mentioned conversation exchanges with the seller, as both parties will likely refer to them. Also, I will submit the latest "goodwill gesture" that the seller offered to a full refund offer via Lawgistics.

 

Should I prepare a single file (pdf) with all of the mentioned emails in a table of contents so the judge can search for the corespondent emails and documents in a single file? Or is it preferable to keep each email and document separately?

 

Thankyou in advance, any advice will be appreciated.

 

[dx100uk]

your need to look at other witness statements here and how they are put together.

paginated, with a contents and a list of the numbered exhibits you intend to rely upon that are at the back.

 

 

[toystorydog]

Thank you DX for your reply,

 

Sorry, I'd like to confirm. Is it that I should review other witness statement regarding the format layout to create the exhibits, or should I prepare the entire witness statement together with the email records and documents as exhibits?

The order that the judge issued was "for a directions hearing to consider the need for expert evidence and any other directions". And in the notice of hearing, there was no request to submit the witness statement. The letter also provided an email address to submit any documents or evidence for my hearing; that is why I wanted to submit the conservation records with the defendant prior to the hearing in case they were referenced.

The reason that I ask is because the witness statement example that I found below seems very difficult to prepare. I am afraid that if mistakes were made in the witness statement, it would put me in an unfavorable position. Thankyou for your time

 

[BankFodder]

Follow the link to the advice we give about preparing your court bundle

[dx100uk]

why not scan up the court order.

 

dx

 

[toystorydog]

Thank you Bankfodder, I'll try to prepare one file with similar structure as described in the court bundle.

 

I'll come back for further advice when needed. Thankyou