Perch/TM Salford Fast Track Claimform - Progressive Money loan from 2016

[dx100uk]

i hope you killed email use by them when told too?

 

[Andyorch]

41 minutes ago, gibson71 said:

Not tomorrow, today! II wrote "tomorrow" last night above.  They have confirmed to me it is due today. 2 August.

Thats very decent of them although you dont need a goon solicitor to remind you of this date given its on your notice of allocation.

If they wish to be so efficient why did they not attach their statement to said email ? waiting for yours ? Theirs not ready ?

Look courts allow a little leniency for litigants and if yours was to be 24 hours late it would not be detrimental to your defence it would be to the claimant if theirs is late. You would however know tomorrow that the claimant is late.

But go a head and file its fine as it looks like theirs will be late or not at all.

 

[gibson71]

Thanks very much @Andyorch, will do

[gibson71]

3 hours ago, dx100uk said:

i hope you killed email use by them when told too?

 

No, because the court have actually encouraged it in their notice of allocation and have specified email use for the next stage which is skeleton arguments.

[dx100uk]

well thats why you wont see it until the very last possible second before the deadline.

you forget the court are not on the side of LiP's with certain implied procedure suggestions when dealing with joe public against the system.

dx

 

 

[gibson71]

Witness statement from other side - 12 exhibits in all.  Haven't downloaded them all but 2 of them are most relevant.  Think we're screwed now.

Witness Statement - JJ.pdf Exhibit 2.pdf

Exhibit 11.pdf CEA CIVIL EVIDENCE ACT NOTICE.pdf TM Legal Email re Schedule of Loss .pdf

[dx100uk]

we need everything in one mass PDF.

why do you keep splitting thing up?

use the sites listed in upload pdfmerge and pdfreducer websites

 

[gibson71]

I tried that but the file was too big so had no option but to split up.  I literally want to die right now.

Edited August 5, 2023 by gibson71

[dx100uk]

put up all the exhibits we have not already seen then.

we dont need statements.

dx

[gibson71]

I don't know what has been seen or not.  Surely you want to read the witness statement?  The two exhibits I've included are the most important in my opinion.

[dx100uk]

of course we need the witness statement ....

and all the exhibits too!! but dont need account statements if there are pages of them.

[gibson71]

OK, remaining exhibits minus account statements attached.  Their witness statement as well as exhibits 2 and 11 are at #206 above which I believe are the most relevant. 

Exhibits to WS Various_compressed.pdf

[gibson71]

Any advice would be gratefully received. 

I think exhibits 2 and 11 are most relevant. 

They say in the email at exhibit 2 that it appears they sent an executed copy of the CCA to us but I can confirm that is not the case. 

They also say they did not retain a copy of that executed agreement. 

At exhibit 11 they are showing a "reconstituted" agreement with our signatures so I'm guessing that's not good? 

I think the final thing to do is the skeleton argument just before trial but I am at a loss to know whether we even have any arguments left!

[Andyorch]

Its impossible to have a reconstituted version with signatures...only the original executed agreement can have them.

[gibson71]

@Andyorch see their witness statement, section 18 vi and vii and exhibit 11 and see what you think, as well as exhibit 2.

[Andyorch]

I will take a look in the morning...long day.

[gibson71]

Thanks @Andyorch much appreciated.

[dx100uk]

Quote

In accordance with CPR 33.2 we hereby give notice that the Claimant intends to rely on the witness evidence of Solicitor for the Claimant, without the need for attendance (hearsay evidence), pursuant to s1(2) of Civil Evidence Act 
1995. 

 

gives you the upperhand if you do attend....

dx

[Andyorch]

Okay having read their statement and looked at the exhibits there is very little wriggle room here as it appears they have covered all basis.

However this agreement would appear to be the weak point on which the whole claim relies upon. Why state that the original credit agreement is unavailable why use a reconstituted which contains signatures ?  Why not add the executing creditors signature ? The recon lack the date the agreement was signed or executed and I assume that the date attached on the post it note is an attempt by them to tick this point ? 

The recon in itself appears to contain the prescribed terms ( less the date) and would conform for the purpose of enforcing the agreement but the addition of signatures would appear that the original agreement must be somewhere for them to be able to lift the signatures ? There simply was no need to add the signatures for the purpose of enforcement.

It would assume that the claimant is very much relying on the balance of probabilities and hoping the judge will take the same view given the evidence of payments and supporting documents. 

The above are the only points I have found and given that you have submitted your statement anything I refer to above you would have to add to your argument by way of a skeleton argument which you can use on the day of the trial.

Take a look at section 60 to 73 of the CCA1974 to confirm this recon covers all basis.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/60

Andy

 

[gibson71]

@Andyorch I've looked at sections 60 to 73, the only thing I think is that at no time did the original creditor send a copy of the executed agreement even though TM Legal are saying differently.  Do I have anything at all I can include in a skeleton argument?  I don't feel good about any of this  

 

@dx100uk even given everything @Andyorch has covered? 

 

[dx100uk]

prove the agreement is a copy and paste jobbie as andy eludes too. and as said how can a recon have your sigs... looks like they been lifted from something else you 2 signed and pasted on top of a copy of how an agreement might of looked at that time, but its not the one the OC sent you and you 2 signed and sent back.

it explains alot as ive been saying since you came here..why did the oc sell it on and not crush you in court...urm... the chickens have come home to roost for the scamming debt buyer.

[gibson71]

@dx100uk and @Andyorch, are you able to point me towards any suitable wording for the skeleton argument I would need to draft given your thoughts above?  I have been searching but am really struggling

[Andyorch]

Skeleton arguments list as opposed to a formal skeleton statement.

Its simply a list of bullet points to prompt you on the day to raise with the judge no wording as such

[Andyorch]

16 hours ago, gibson71 said:

at no time did the original creditor send a copy of the executed agreement even though TM Legal are saying differently.

Out of curiosity did you actually both sign the original agreement and return it ? How did they get your signatures if not ? 

[gibson71]

@Andyorch I think it is a formal skeleton argument, it doesn't state it is a list and it is to be served on the other side and the court before the trial.

As to whether we both signed the original agreement, I assume so but have absolutely no recollection of doing so!  Like you say, no idea how else did they get our signatures?