Cabot and old stayed Court Claim - Old Welcome Secured Loan - want to sell, but charge is still showing

[lord_tiger_putin]

The APR are used to compare products and seeing that Welcome made theirs looks better than what it really is, place you at a disadvantage because the product "is not as good" as on the advertisement!

[postggj]

i must agree

 

my 8 year old nephew can do sums better than that

 

totally unenforceable

[majimix]

Thanks guys, your input is much appreciated, what do you reckon is the next step, SAR ? Ive not done one before, just the one with the 1 pound postal order.

[postggj]

Just update me on the curent situation

 

do you have a court claim

 

which dca is chasing you

[majimix]

Salans letter last week asking for 10,495 they included an income and expenditure form and said the loan had been terminated with Welcome and so they want above payment or may accept less in a lump sum.

 

Salems, sorry !

 

It seems the way forward is to request a SAR, in the meantime would you make any payments to Salems ?

 

Really appreciate everyones help with this, thanks

[lord_tiger_putin]

majimix said:

It seems the way forward is to request a SAR, in the meantime would you make any payments to Salems ?

 

Really appreciate everyones help with this, thanks

 

To summarise:

 

• The agreement is unenforceable but not necessary irredeemably unenforceable.
• Did you receive a Default Notice? This would probably be invalid.
• Did you receive the correct documents as a result of your CCA request?

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The agreement is unenforceable for the following reasons:

 

1. Amount of Credit Wrong
2. Total Cash Price Wrong
3. APR Wrong
4. Total charges/Fee Missing
5. Total charge for Credit Wrong
6. Monthly Payment Amount Wrong
7. Total amount payable Missing (This fact, combined with the incorrect put you at a severe disadvantage because you did not know what you were buying!)
8. Have to answer this regarding the Insurances, BOTH Lifecare and Homecare boxes MUST be ticked:

Tick box ticked?:Is there a declaration signed by the debtor, with a tick box ticked opposite the insurance he has chosen that confirms that the debtor has opted into taking the insurance's shown in the summary above?

 

 

BUT:

"Section 127(3) of the Act has been repealed by the Consumer Credit Act 2006, therefore agreements entered into on or after 6 April 2007 cannot be held to be 'irredeemably unenforceable'."

 

It can be made enforceable by a Judge unless you can argue that these breaches put you at a serious disadvantage (Point 7 is IMHO such a point).

 

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I see receive a reply to your CCA request? Does it contain a statement of account, showing all payments going in and out of the account over its lifetime? If not, then you will also have to put the account in “Dispute”. You will need to get hold of their response for this.

 

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Did you receive a Default Notice and does it state that:

“To remedy the breach you must pay to us the total arrears of £xxx.xx within fourteen (14) days.”?

 

If so, then the DN is invalid and they unlawfully terminated the agreement and you can claim “Unlawful Rescission” of contract. You will have to send this letter (and Salems):

 

[Your Address]

[Their Address]

 

[Date]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number xxxxxxx

 

***Unlawful Rescission***

 

I refer to your Default Notice dated xxxxxxx, received by me on xxxxxx and your subsequent letter terminating the agreement by demanding the balance in full, dated xxxxx, received xxxxxxxxxx, in which you confirm that you had in fact terminated the above agreement by demanding the balance in full.

 

The default notice failed to give me the required statutory time in which to seek legal advice and/or remedy any alleged defect. Your actions resulted in insufficient time for me to even obtain an appointment with a solicitor let alone remedy the alleged default. These actions by you, have resulted in you unlawfully rescinding the alleged agreement.

 

I accept your unlawful rescission of the agreement and I note that you are now entitled to claim those arrears genuinely due at the time of the termination (not including any unlawful charges ) and I would be obliged if you would advise me of the exact amount of those arrears, against which will be a claim for unlawful rescission.

 

Yours faithfully,

[majimix]

Hi Lord,

 

I did recieve a statement of the secured loan including all payments in and out over the lifetime. I also recieved the Default notice on 2nd June 2010 stating that "To remedy the breach you must pay to us the total arrears of £1255.86 within 14 days"

 

I have no paperwork with my signature on at all

[lord_tiger_putin]

majimix said:

Hi Lord,

 

I did recieve a statement of the secured loan including all payments in and out over the lifetime. I also recieved the Default notice on 2nd June 2010 stating that "To remedy the breach you must pay to us the total arrears of £1255.86 within 14 days"

 

Then you have to send them the Unlawful Rescission Letter, I would suggest a copy to the solicitors as well.

 

What that mean in law is that you only have to pay the arrears at of now (when you send the termination letter) and you can also claim damages against them for the unlawful termination because they have terminated the agreement without a valid Default Notice (equal to no DN).

 

Just to check, what is the amount they ask now, is it the full amount or only the arrears? If only the arrears than they have not necessary terminated the agreement.

 

majimix said:

I have no paperwork with my signature on at all

 

Well, they can get away with that regarding the CCA section 77 request with an agreement without a signature but they will have to cough it up if they try the court. Do you ticked the 2 insurance boxes on the one you received from them?

[postggj]

Lord-tiger-putin

 

i believe the total amount payable is not a prescribed term

 

but all the other is correct being that the cagger is prejudiced on the total amount payable in that the apr is incorect

 

also the apr is way out

 

game over for welcome

[lord_tiger_putin]

According to:

Consumer Credit - (Agreements) Regulations 1983

 

4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain, shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below-- © under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to 8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

 

Schedule 1

Total charge for credit, rate of interest, etc.

9. Agreements for fixed-sum credit except agreements--

(1) The total charge for credit, with a list of its constituent parts.

Total amount payable

11. Agreements falling within paragraph 9.

The total amount payable, being the total and 9 above.

[postggj]

Can i just confirm this

 

the total amount payable

 

is only for fixed sum agreements

 

not say

 

hp

 

this is interesting as ime educating myself on this one

 

please elaborate

[majimix]

Salans are asking for the full amount of £10458,30. The letter clearly states that their client Welcome has terminated the agreement. I have scanned the letter in a previous post.

[lord_tiger_putin]

HP uses schedule 3 and I do not see Total Amount Payable.

 

This agreement is a Fix-Sum agreement according to the nature of the agreement description, therefore it should have it as it use schedule 1.

 

That's the way I have it.

[postggj]

Thats what i thought

 

its a shame that fixed sum agreements are dying out

 

thanks for the confirmation

[majimix]

So I send the letter "Unlawful Rescission Letter" to Welcome and Salans ? Would it help to see what else they have on me, a SAR perhaps ?

[postggj]

I advocate not informing the creditor of a faulty default notice untill you have a court claim form

 

but thats me

[lord_tiger_putin]

So I send the letter "Unlawful Rescission Letter" to Welcome and Salans ? Would it help to see what else they have on me, a SAR perhaps ?

 

Yes, it is actually only addressed to Welcome but it is good that Salens see it as well. Pre-action protocol states that they (Salems) have to investigate all queries, so if they try to get nasty and ignored it, it would not be helpful for them if they were aware of it and proceeded when they knew about any issues.

 

A SAR is always relevant IMHO, you do not know what will turn up that can be useful later!

 

I did sent a SAR to HSBC and it contained nice info about emails when I made the PPI claim, when they responded and refused payment, they made statements which were incorrect, according to the emails!

[postggj]

Can you give a link to the termination notice

[postggj]

specifi welcome finance sar request enclosed

 

I AM POSTING THIS FOR FUTURE REFERENCE ON PEOPLE DOING AN

SAR

ON THESE JOKERS,

IS ASKS FOR SPECIFIC DOCUMENTS AND LEAVES THEM NO ROOM TO MOVE.

 

SEND TO

 

WELCOME FINANCIAL SERVICE

COMPLIANCE

RUDDINGTON FIELD BUSINESS PARK

RUDDINGTON

NOTTINGHAM

NG11 6NZ

 

REMEMBER THE £10 POSTAL ORDER AND SEND RECORDED DELIEVERY

 

GOOD HUNTING

 

 

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

(or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me

in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any

personal data

which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not linited merely to

6 years

of historical information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.

I require all information on details of all insurance products supplied by welcome financial services. This is to include the statement of means, statement of price, details of all insurance premium tax paid, and underwriting sheets.

If mortage indemnity insurance has been added to the agreement, i require all details on who this premium was paid to, and who underwrites this insurance.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any

interest

charges which you have levied on them.

As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject Access Request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[lord_tiger_putin]

postggj said:

Can you give a link to the termination notice

 

I used the one in post #76, I do not know whether a template letter exists.

 

postggj said:

I advocate not informing the creditor of a faulty default notice untill you have a court claim form

 

It is probable a good way, it can be done by leaving out the 2nd paragraph about the DN but the letter must go as quick as possible to minimise the arrears amount?

 

Here is the letter again (DN paragraph removed):

[Your Address]

[Their Address]

 

[Date]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number xxxxxxx

 

***Unlawful Rescission***

 

I refer to your Default Notice dated xxxxxxx, received by me on xxxxxx and your subsequent letter terminating the agreement by demanding the balance in full, dated xxxxx, received xxxxxxxxxx, in which you confirm that you had in fact terminated the above agreement by demanding the balance in full.

 

I accept your unlawful rescission of the agreement and I note that you are now entitled to claim those arrears genuinely due at the time of the termination (not including any unlawful charges ) and I would be obliged if you would advise me of the exact amount of those arrears, against which will be a claim for unlawful rescission.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

majimix

I assume they demanded the full amount?

[majimix]

They did demand the full amount. Right, I will sent for a SAR with rthe template used above and send the Unlawful Rescission to Salans. Is that correct ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22100&d=1285422978

 

Postggi,

 

Here is a link to the termination notice.

[postggj]

i am being devils advocate on this

 

that termination notice needs to come from the original creditor

not the solicitors

 

that is not a welcome termination notice

 

 

please type the termination notice out word for word as the post is a bit small to read

[majimix]

ok, ive never had a termination notice from Welcome but here is the one from Salans word for word,

 

We are instructed by Welcome Financial Services Ltd in relation to the above numbered loan account secured over your above property.

 

We are instructed that you have defaulted under the terms of the loan and that our client has terminated the agreement with an outstanding balance of £10458.30 currently owing to our client which continues to accrue interest. This figure is not a redemption figure but is merely indicative. We are instructed to seek your proposals to discharge your indebtness to our client and we therefore enclose a form of income and expenditure for you to complete and return to our client with your proposals. Alternitavely,our client may consider a reduced settlement figure provided it is paid by way of a lump sum.

 

We would be grateful to have your response within 7 days of the date of this letter.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Salans LLP

 

Thats the letter word for word

[postggj]

Get that sar sent by recorded delivery

 

if no official termination notice has been issued, welcome can just issue another

 

dont mention about the duff default notice untill we get the sar back

 

that is most important

[majimix]

ok will do, what about the Unlawful Rescission letter? I will use your template for the SAR

 

ALso what about payments in the meantime ?