VCS Spycar PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - No Stopping 47) STOPPING IN A RESTRICTED BUS STOP /STAND Robin Hood Airport Doncaster

[notpayingapenny]

Good people I need some advice.

Should I now just wait for their Letter before action?
 

My redacted email below summarises the issue:

 

"Good day

I refer to a letter marked "Demand for payment" with a picture of my car on it.

The demand states that the opportunity for appeal has lapsed and also that the company intends to take me to court.

 

Firstly I have no idea what the offence I am charged with is all about.

Secondly, this is the very first correspondence I have received and so I do not know when and how I had any opportunity to appeal and against what.

The reference on  the document is VCS0000000 and the registration number is XXXXXXX.

 

Please let me know what debt I am being accused of not paying and how I happened to be in the debt and at the same time be told I have lost any right to appeal something I know nothing about.

Regards

Me"

 

I sent the email to cpo@vehiclecontrol.co.uk which I was given when I rang to seek information about why I was being invoiced.

A reply was late to come and I printed the email and sent it by post to VCS Sheffield.

A day after posting the hard copy of the email I got a reply to my email from debtrecovery@vehiclecontrol.co.uk.

 

This was their verbatim unredacted response:

 

" Good Morning,

 

We note you have mentioned that this was the first correspondence that you have received, however, there were letters that were sent out to your address on different occasions (see attached letters). Therefore, now as the time to appeal has expired we are unable to look into the matter further.   

 

Whilst we appreciate the circumstances mentioned the fact remains that the vehicle was parked in the breach of the terms and conditions of private parking.

 

Therefore, the above Parking charge Notice was issued correctly.

 

The outstanding balance is now due, please visit www.myparkingcharge.co.uk or call 0845 226 9138 in order to make payment.

 

We will not acknowledge or respond to any further correspondence disputing the charge.

 

Kind Regard

EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LTD P1 Europa Link, Sheffield Business Park, Sheffield, S9 1XU   t:    +44 (0) 114 261 7111 "   This morning I received an A4 envelope with pretty much the same message as their email content but with a handmade signature for  a name "Debt & Litigation Department".   With the letter, as was with the email came copies of their  original PCN claiming a contravention reason " 47) STOPPING IN A RESTRICTED BUS STOP /STAND" back in October 2020.   There is a photo of the back of my car and a zoomed in photo of the registration number of the back of the car. There is nothing  showing who was driving the vehicle at the time it stopped there and nothing to show how long it actually stopped for. There is no telling if it was the person who is the registered keeper or anyone else.   I attempted to contact IPC and they said I should give them ref number from VCS. " Please Note: If you have had your appeal rejected and you have been told to enter your appeal on this site but keep receiving this message; please contact the operator that issued the charge for assistance.   The IAS will not have the information to assist you at this stage. "  So with no prospect of engaging in any discussion: 1. I have no chance to speak about whatever circumstances, even emergency ones like a satnav not giving  the direction to take at the next roundabout or a child urgently needing to pee. 2. I am not able to give the identity of the driver who was actually driving on the day in question (if it was not me). 3. I am not able to protest the cost of the charge which now stands at £160 and which I have absolutely no intention of paying one penny of at the expense of taking care of my family. 4. I am not able to ask them for my contractual obligation to pay anything which I can be proven to have agreed to. 5. I cannot even ask for their  proof that their initial correspondence actually was delivered to me before since I never even saw it anyway.   If in some unfortunate case I am compelled by any judge to pay that extortionate fee then I must offer to pay a token amount of £1 per month as with other creditors who I have owed way before this ridiculous claim.   What is your best advice at this point? Wait for their letter before replying to it to say I have no intention to pay a penny or write that to them right now and tell them in as much as they are not interested to talk to me I am no interested to talk to them neither?  I believe I am finally in the right forum for dealing with this crazy issue!

[notpayingapenny]

1 Date of the infringement 12/10/2020
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 12/11/2020
 

3 Date received never received
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N - I cannot see any such mention
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes the rear of my car is pictured and a zoomed-in picture of its registration number
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N - I was denied and told I missed the date. But I still phoned and then after obtaining an email address sent redacted this email:

 

Good day

I refer to a letter marked "Demand for payment" with a picture of my car on it.

The demand states that the opportunity for appeal has lapsed and also that the company intends to take me to court.

 

Firstly I have no idea what the offence I am charged with is all about.

Secondly, this is the very first correspondence I have received and so I do not know when and how I had any opportunity to appeal and against what.

The reference on  the document is VCS0000000 and the registration number is RE00NUM.

 

Please let me know what debt I am being accused of not paying and how I happened to be in the debt and at the same time be told I have lost any right to appeal something I know nothing about.

Regards

Me

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

Email received back: 

"Good Morning,

 

We note you have mentioned that this was the first correspondence that you have received, however, there were letters that were sent out to your address on different occasions (see attached letters). Therefore, now as the time to appeal has expired we are unable to look into the matter further.   

 

Whilst we appreciate the circumstances mentioned the fact remains that the vehicle was parked in the breach of the terms and conditions of private parking.

 

Therefore, the above Parking charge Notice was issued correctly.

 

The outstanding balance is now due, please visit www.myparkingcharge.co.uk or call 0845 226 9138 in order to make payment.

 

We will not acknowledge or respond to any further correspondence disputing the charge.

 

Kind Regard

  

EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LTD

P1 Europa Link, Sheffield Business Park, Sheffield, S9 1XU

 

t:    +44 (0) 114 261 7111"

 

7 Who is the parking company?

Vehicle Control Services

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Robing Hood Airport, Doncaster
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

International Parking Community which seems to be operating under IAS

 

This morning I received an A4 envelope with pretty much the same message as their email content above but with a handmade signature for  a name "Debt & Litigation Department".

With the letter, as was with the email came copies of their  original PCN claiming a contravention reason "

47) STOPPING IN A RESTRICTED BUS STOP /STAND" back in October 2020.

There is a photo of the back of my car and a zoomed in photo of the registration number of the back of the car.

 

 

 

On 02/02/2021 at 14:42, dx100uk said:

your latest letter now has your correct address on it?

They had the correct address even for previous correspondences but I just never got them.

NTK.pdf

[notpayingapenny]

Never even once no.

It could have been anyone driving my car that day.

They have to prove who it was and how long they stopped for.

 

I have the right to not saying anything to them and I just demanded that they tell me what wrong I am accused of.

 

They issued and posted their documents too late...

They have no proof of who was driving...

.No proof of how long the stoppage was, which I know was less than 2 minutes...

Are calling it parking when it was not....

 

I cannot see them getting away with this issue at all and I am glad I am now on this forum and talking to people who don’t believe I should be robbed by the extortionists!

[notpayingapenny]

The attached redacted letter before claim and its annexes arrived yesterday. I am now lookng for the simple Simon letters to adapt and send back.

 

 

Here is some snot! What do you think?

 

letter before claim (1).pdf

snotty letter 1 (1).pdf

[notpayingapenny]

Litigation & Debt Department

Vehicle Control Services Limited

P1 Europa Link

Sheffield Business Park

Sheffield, S9 1XU

 

RE: Jljlne56

 

Dear Litigation Department

 

I am responding to your so-called “Letter Before Claim” dated 04/02/2021, received with your ref number ..... for alleged parking breaches.

 

Please be advised that I have absolutely no intention of paying these extortionate and ridiculous made-up sums of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract which I never entered into and which you have not demonstrated how I personally became party to.

 

I did try to find out more about your allegation but in a response letter that you sent me you clearly stated, “We will not acknowledge or respond to any further correspondence disputing the charge.”

 

You do not even have the identity of the driver who had the vehicle on the alleged date of offence, yet you want to litigate against me. You have not provided proof of how long the vehicle was parked in the alleged bus stand and yet you have also refused to discuss this.

 

I could go on but it is enough to say that this whole claim is utter nonsense and I’m sure that any Judge would agree.

 

Should you wish to proceed with this farcical claim, I’ll be seeking recovery of costs based on unreasonable behaviour, as well as damages for breach of the DPA 2018.

 

I look forward to your response

[notpayingapenny]

Is it worth sending it by recorded delivery?

[notpayingapenny]

thanks!! 2nd class it will be with proof of posting!

[notpayingapenny]

I have posted Simon's undated and unsigned snotty letter today  and obtained my proof of posting. Lets wait and see if he tries any other move.

 

On 24/02/2021 at 01:24, lookinforinfo said:

As their PCN was out of time they cannot pursue you as the keeper under PoFA. So they are continuing to claim money from you by assuming you were the driver. This is something they cannot do and as well as VCS knowing it, Judges also know it. Just ensure that you never reveal who was driving.

 

Thanks for this... I am even bolder and determined not to be pushed over!!!

[notpayingapenny]

I have had a reply with threats. What is the way forward with this?

 

NOTIFICATION OF INSTRUCTION - Elms legal.pdf

[notpayingapenny]

Thank you! I shall ignore indeed an await whatever court action Simon  and his said debt collectors want to try.

[notpayingapenny]

9 hours ago, dx100uk said:

a dca cannot take any legal action, they don't own the debt........

I did not even know that! I am learning a lot! Thanks!

[notpayingapenny]

Is that applicable also to debts that are sold on from creditors to debt collectors who accept token payments but like to threaten people? This is such good knowledge!

[notpayingapenny]

I ignored the threats as advised before but today I have received a money claim online from the courts.

I have redacted and attached it.

 

I suppose my next move is defend and counterclaim but perhaps acknowledge service within 14 days first then use the 28 days to construct a powerful counterclaim and earn some money for the distress they are causing me and ask the judge to get it for me quickly?

 

[notpayingapenny]

Name of the Claimant : Vehicle Control Services Limited

 

Claimants Solicitors: Elms Legal Ltd

 

Date of issue – 29 April 2021

 

Date for AOS - 17 May 2021

 

Date to submit Defence - 31st May 2021

 

What is the claim for –

 

1.The claim is for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.The defendant's vehicle XXXX, was identified in the Robin Hood Airport Doncaster on the 12/10/2020 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a restricted bus stop / stand.

 

3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

4. The terms and conditions upon  entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

5.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply,  namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

6.The claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

Amount Claimed £160

court fees £25

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £235

 

[notpayingapenny]

Does this look okay for sending as is?

 

I have deleted it as it says I should not reproduce the template... but I am not sure that I understand how to get a comment on it....

 

What I particularly wanted to be sure of is if I right to refer to the "following / the document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim" and if all of them are applicable in my case according to the POC.

   

Edited May 9, 2021 by notpayingapenny

[notpayingapenny]

CPR31.14 request

[notpayingapenny]

Is there any point in leaving the defence for a lengthy period other than necessary for its  preparation? Or is it better to get it done as soon as I am able to?

[notpayingapenny]

I have been reading many private parking threads but still do not find the answer to my question. Maybe I do not know how to look?

[notpayingapenny]

Thanks a lot for that!

I excitedly read this bit ....

 

"It is the Airports Act 1986  which applies to nearly all airports  including Southend airports. 

 

Byelaws are covered at S.63

 (2)Any such byelaws may, in particular, include byelaws—

(d)for regulating vehicular traffic anywhere within the airport, except on roads within the airport to which the road traffic enactments apply, and in particular (with that exception) for imposing speed limits on vehicles within the airport and for restricting or regulating the parking of vehicles or their use for any purpose or in any manner specified in the byelaws;

 

So it is there in black and white.

It is an Act of Parliament that far outranks any stupid VCS sign. "

 

The bus stop in question is just outside of the gates to the airport and if I recall well the satnav was not yet showing where to go at the roundabout just ahead and so to give it a few seconds to give the correct direction and for safety, I may have pulled over into the bus stop and waited for it to tell me the way to go - then boom someone claims that I was parked and wants to milk me!

 

So does this byelaw still apply since the bus stop is not inside the airport fence?

[notpayingapenny]

16 hours ago, dx100uk said:

pix on NTK match google earth images of inside the boundary of the airport

Thanks for that! That was very helpful and timely.

[notpayingapenny]

I have been searching for the airports act and this "

Byelaws are covered at S.63

 (2)Any such byelaws may, in particular, include byelaws—

(d)for regulating vehicular traffic anywhere within the airport, except on roads within the airport to which the road traffic enactments apply, and in particular (with that exception) for imposing speed limits on vehicles within the airport and for restricting or regulating the parking of vehicles or their use for any purpose or in any manner specified in the byelaws;

" so I can cite it in my defence but I do not know where to find it.

[notpayingapenny]

This is my problem... I don't know where to look

 

Is it enough to cite just the text on the cover of the statutory instruments?

[notpayingapenny]

On 03/02/2021 at 02:02, lookinforinfo said:

The letter you received was from Excel parking yet VCS are also involved. That cannot only one company can have the contract. VCS do not rely on PoFA so they cannot pursue the keeper-only the driver is liable when PoFA does not apply. In any event,

 

their PCN is wrong as the Law does not state that if you do not reveal the name of the driver then they can pursue as the keeper on presumption that you are the driver. That is not what the act says and in any event they are not using PoFA!

 

As dx100uk rightly states the airport is covered by ByeLaws which outrank the shady crooks  signs. And where the roads aren't  covered by Byelaws, they are covered by the Road Traffic Act. So the airport land is not "Relevant Land" and so not covered by PoFA either. So no way do you owe them a penny.

 

I am struggling to phrase my defence properly about this aspect. I believe that I should not even use my point number 6 as that makes me seem to accept their alleged contract? Here is how far I have come so far... any pointers to any incorrect phrases will be much appreciated.
 

I have deleted the text so I can tery to search for the defence template referred to .. I had not seen the response before.

 

 

1 hour ago, dx100uk said:

just use the std 3-5 line generic non specific bland defence you'll find in most no stopping claimform threads already here.

Do I need to have a separate registration of the CAG library in order to have access to the templates and threads? 

Edited May 23, 2021 by notpayingapenny

[notpayingapenny]

I thought I was before as it said "

• CAG Library - Please register

" and I could not click on the links earlier, seems to be okay now.

[notpayingapenny]

Here is my draft defence ready to go:

 

1. It is denied that the defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant, or broke any such contract.

 

4.The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Hence it is denied that the defendant has any debt to settle with the claimant.

 

5. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.

 

Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.