Ebay sale - shipment delayed (assumed lost), refunded buyer, now shipment delivered but buyer no longer responds

[LittleSeaHorse]

I am new to the forum , it has been recommended by someone who has used this before, so I thought I post my problem and see

If someone knows what the legal position is in such a case.

 

I sold something on ebay (private seller) on the 10^th of January this year

 

The item was paid for straight away by the buyer through paypal

 

I shipped the item tracked and insured with Hermes on the 11^th of January

Destination Manchester

 

The tracking stopped on the 12^th of January just saying ‘entered Hermes network’ then nothing.

 

I raised a query with Hermes a week later after the buyer asked where her parcel was

 

Hermes reply said they searched for the item and couldn’t locate it, so they send me a claim form to claim for loss

Which I completed and returned to Hermes

 

The buyer also asked for a refund as she didn’t want to wait any longer, she didn’t open a case through ebay, so I simply refunded through paypal direct

I had no credit balance in my paypal account at the time , so paypal funded the refund through my bank account (direct debit) and issued the buyer with what they call an e –cheque

Which apparently takes 10 working days to clear (although they take the money through direct debit after 48 hours out of the bank account ,but then do not pass it on to the recipient for almost another week)

 

Whilst this e-cheque was processed / clearing, the buyer opened a case through her bank claiming the transaction was not authorised, i.e. she tried a reversal.

Paypal initially put this on hold, saying she already had a refund and no action was required from me, but then changed its mind a few days later saying I have to provide further details.

 

I provided copies of my communication with the buyer about the lost parcel, the ebay transaction and the paypal transaction and the tracking details with Hermes.

Paypal is still investigating this, the e-cheque has since cleared and the buyer had her refund, but the paypal case is still open about the unauthorized transaction.

They told me if they find in the buyers favour they will debit my account with the disputed amount, but the buyer already had a refund, so I hope they wouldn’t issue her a second refund

 

So at this point I was waiting for Hermes to refund me for the lost item, but I have not heard anything and when I checked the tracking again this morning I was surprised to find the parcel has since been delivered to the buyer !! That was today.

 

I am now at a loss as to what to do.

Hermes won’t pay out on the claim as they will say they have (albeit late) delivered the item

 

For ebay the item was refunded and I can’t open a case for item not paid for anymore.

For paypal this is still a case of an unauthorized transaction

 

The buyer is the winner having now got my item and her money back.

 

Is she still obliged to pay for the item at this stage ?

 

Does anybody know if she can now just keep the item for free ?

 

[Andyorch]

Hi and Welcome to the Forum.

 

I have moved your topic to the appropriate forum ...Online Stores...please continue to posthere to your topic.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

No she can't keep the item. She's obliged to return the money to you.

It's a shame you didn't go through the PayPal refund process. It would have been easy and provable.

I would certainly begin by getting whatever bank details you have which evidence the payment which was made to your purchaser, provide them to PayPal.

I would suggest that you telephone PayPal and explain exactly what has happened and tell them that you are uploading the file of evidence to them so that they can see.

You need to give them a very clear factual – non-emotional account of what has happened.

In terms of the purchaser, obviously you have her address and so if she appears to be causing any problems giving you the refund, I would send her an immediate letter of claim telling her that you will be starting a small claim in the County Court within 14 days for the repayment of money plus interest.

I think you might also be worth saying that if she withholds the money then you will have no choice but also to bring her integrity – lack of honesty – to the attention of the court.
Point out to her also that if she obliges you to take action that she will also be faced with costs in addition to interest on the sum which is currently assessed at 8%.

I am really puzzled why you didn't make the refund through PayPal. You pay fees to PayPal for money which you receive. Presumably because you didn't use them to refund the money you still pay the fees so you lost any of the kind of security which PayPal would normally provide.

[LittleSeaHorse]

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

It's a shame you didn't go through the PayPal refund process. It would have been easy and provable.

 

 

I did go through paypal. I refunded her initial payment which came in through PP directly back that way. It was just turned into an 'e-cheque' by paypal , as I didn't have a credit balance in my paypal account. They had to take it out of by bank account via direct debit first and then refund it to the buyer. That process takes 7-10 days.

 

So whilst this refund "clearing process" was going on, the buyer contacted her bank and tried to reverse the initial payment on top of it, claiming she never authorized the transaction in the first place.

As my refund was already going through at this time, paypal initially said I didn't have to do anything, as I already issued a refund.

But then paypal decided they actually did need more info, so I supplied them all sorts of information (correspondence with the buyer where we discussed the lost parcel and the refund, the ebay confirmation of the sale and the paypal transaction.) If she didn't authorize this payment, then someone not only hacked her paypal account but also her ebay account, as all tallies up (name, address, ebay user name and paypal name and address) She also discussed the entire matter with me via ebay messaging. 

 

The refund clearance process has now since completed and the refund was credited to the buyer, but she still seems to pursue a reversal on top of this, as the paypal case about the unauthorized transaction still rumbles on. You'd think she'd close the case now she got her refund or that paypal would close it, as the payment has already been refunded.

 

Now on top of this she also received the goods which were deemed lost.

 

I have written to her via ebay messaging asking her to pay for the item again, as she has now received it , but she hasn't responded yet.

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

How much are we talking about here?

[LittleSeaHorse]

£35

 

So not a huge amount, just annoying.

I never had anything like this happen before. 

 

I was thinking to let the paypal case run to see if it is decided it was an unauthorized transaction or not. If paypal decides it was not unauthorized and buyer knew what she was doing, then I may write her an official letter asking for payment or the goods returned. If paypal sides with her and says it was an unauthorized transaction then I may be in a weaker position as she may say she never ordered this item in the first place.

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by LittleSeaHorse
posted too quickly