SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[kegi]

being a complete novice in matters of law can someone please tell me I am wrong when after just reading the case of paragon vs pender that the penders lost and a lot of what has been written here in brilliant detail I might add viz a vi securitisation matters that they have been blown out of the water by this ..... please tell me I am wrong

 

kegi

[scedminc]

being a complete novice in matters of law can someone please tell me I am wrong when after just reading the case of paragon vs pender that the penders lost and a lot of what has been written here in brilliant detail I might add viz a vi securitisation matters that they have been blown out of the water by this ..... please tell me I am wrong

 

kegi

 

Just for anyone else interested in the Paragon vs Pender case a link to it can be found on this thread I posted it to.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/175426-mortgage-securitisation-preferred-3.html#post1961907

[Londres]

being a complete novice in matters of law can someone please tell me I am wrong when after just reading the case of paragon vs pender that the penders lost and a lot of what has been written here in brilliant detail I might add viz a vi securitisation matters that they have been blown out of the water by this ..... please tell me I am wrong

 

kegi

 

Kegi you are absolutely right. I dealt with these SPML retards last year, and the case was rejected by the court. Bottom line, SPML do not need to notify the borrower that the mortgage was sold because SPML does not transfer LEGAL title, only beneficial title to the mortgage, therefor the land registry does not need to be notified. Any argument relying on this is doomed to fail. The Paragon case makes this clear. You can try other grounds or try negotiating with Capstone in the first instance. In the end I spent a lot of time writing letters and in court and got nowhere until negotiated a performing arrangement with capstone.

[kegi]

thanks for that londres so in that case any or these sub prime so called lenders can charge what they want in terms of interest and apply to re-posess the property on grounds ...in the interest of supporting the companys financial standing and we are stuffed

by that a I mean matlock - smpl -eurosail -whatever

 

kegi

[mercyblue]

No they are still bound by their contractual obligations set out in your terms and conditions.

[kegi]

thats right mercyblue or should be but the way I read it from other threads is that when you go to these spv or whatever and say can you give me a break or put the arrears to the back and so on they reply no we are not lenders we just collect money .What we can do is put the interest rate up or repossess at the drop of a hat because we like that bit ,you then go back to the original lender and he says no we can't do nothing we have passed on the rights to such and such which to me means t&c as well its no wonder well thinking people get confused and end up being screwed.This takes me back to my previous posting and I have read the post 49 in the thread [preferred] by super sleuth that he believes the penders lost due to the delay in time of the challenge I still read in that judgement they went thought all the points and spelt out clearly in favour of whoever these companys are that they can in the interests of the company vs the customer charge what they want in interest and repossess as a first instance if it gains more money to prop up the company and forget about who is the actual owner of the now mortgage or secured loan.and other judges in present cases will rely on that finding and lean that way too never mind what what this act or that act say [my view only] of course unless you get a judge who is a member of Cag [COULD'NT RESIST THAT ONE]

 

kegi

[supersleuth]

Hi

 

Re The Paragon v Pender case

 

Do not dispair - this case is not as bad as you think!!

 

The Penders were trying to appeal against a judgement that had been entered against them 7 years earlier. There are strict time limits for appeal against judgement usually 21 days. Therefore they had to apply to the court for PERMISSION to appeal out of time. The lower-court refused them the permission to appeal out of time. So they appealled to the Court of Appeal against that decision (i.e. the lower court's refusal to allow them to appeal out of time).

 

Therefore, whilst the case looks as if totally stuffs all borrowers, the case is actually taken out of context. When the court is deciding whether to allow permission to appeal, the standard on which they judge is the summary judgment standard. This means that the court has to decide whether they have "a prospect of success". Given that the judgement was 7 years old the court decided that they didn't have a "prospect of success" and so DID NOT GRANT THEM PERMISSION TO APPEAL.

 

Therefore, there was NO APPEAL. Whilst the judgment goes into all sorts of reasoning that seems to go against all borrowers, the case can be distinguished on the fact that it was only a SUMMARY JUDGEMENT standard and it was A PERMISSION TO APPEAL hearing.

 

Consequently, I am sorry that that this case has been successfully used and abused by the lender to defeat Londres but it does not change the fact that the case has been misapplied against Londres. My lender tried to intimidate me with this case too. It is the ONLY case the lenders have to assert and on a proper reading, it is not case precedent that can be used in accordance with the doctrine of stare decisis. Although I acknowledge that it is misused against unrepresented litigants who will find it next to impossible to argue against.

 

Supersleuth

[iconoclash]

Hi - been delayed in keeping up (partner in hospital) - Littledotty, have PM'd you.

SS: Ive heard about this Pender scenario b4 - I think you're right. Costs issue: we all know that there have been no actual costs to the lender due to their insurance schemes and MIGs - these I still believe fall into the category of indemnifying a loss blah blah as per my original defence that you've seen. However, when the local welfare rights people dont have a clue and are not interested then you are on a sticky path therefore, none of my issues raised were even looked at in court. I am now out of any actual legal action due to the risk with their passing it all over to me . YES £6k in costs against £5k in arrears is outrageous but who's listening - certainly not the courts. It looks like my best chance of sueing my lender is to get out of the contract first - there lies the rub - no chance of that at present. but hey ho _ ive got years. Meantime - Im see that there is a disclosed commission to the broker of just under £3k - we had a surplus on the (re)mortgage to a funny amount - so many pounds and pence that brought it up specifically to 90% - so easily we could have said OK, then we'll have that reduced by £2k and then wont have to pay the HLV fee. But no, we were not informed of that AND we paid the broker ourselves as well. Is this related to a secret commission scenario??

[littledotty27]

Well I have just been through all bank statements & there is only 6 payments missing unlike the 12 spml mentioned,these total to £4955.74.

Also received an upto date statement of spml today stating arrears now stand at £16,101.18 so that £11145.44 in unfair charges.

[midge61]

Hi littledotty

 

This is unbelievable! They really need kicking into touch.

 

Yeserday when they phoned me I spoke to 2 people and got quoted £850 as arrears and then £615 and when I said that it didn't tally with any of my mp amounts she said it would take a while to print off the statements. I said if their statements were done properly then surely they should be able to see immediately what arrears there were and when from.........no answer.

 

I was also told it was not a FSA requirement to NOT add fees etc to the arrears amount and so they would continue to do so!

[jansus]

So little Dotty what is your plan of action ? This all seems totally out of order.

[littledotty27]

Well I'm back in court next week,so I will present all our payments made to the DJ and see what he makes of it.

He's not been happy with there excuses up to now & to be honest I think he is testing them to see how far they will go.

But they have already breached his order by sending us an eviction notice whilst on a suspended order.

[jansus]

It is a long thread with lots of comments - but basically just regarding the arrears part ,you have not even been able to get a clear agreeable statement about what your missing payments are,or what the fees /late payment charges are, whether they are included in the arrears figure and also there is disagreement about how your payments have been allocated. Also they obstructed your chance to get a re-mortgage that would help your financial situation because of the calculation of figures?

 

And that is just for starters.

 

I hope the judge comes down on them hard as you can not even consider a fair hearing when the basic figures can not be agreed or clearly explained.

[brassed-off-2]

Hi

 

whats happening on the ITN front Little dotty ? Have you heard anything ?

Could you not invite them to attend court with you this time ?? Just a thought, they might get a better idea of what we are all having to go through,

 

B-O-2

[littledotty27]

It is a long thread with lots of comments - but basically just regarding the arrears part ,you have not even been able to get a clear agreeable statement about what your missing payments are,or what the fees /late payment charges are, whether they are included in the arrears figure and also there is disagreement about how your payments have been allocated. Also they obstructed your chance to get a re-mortgage that would help your financial situation because of the calculation of figures?

 

Hi Janus

The arrears started in may 06 with myself being made redundant,so missed a payment,LMC didn't even attemp to take DD in the sept 06,which then led them to take court proceedings for possession.

Originally there was only one missed payment,the other was caused by them not collecting the other.

The total arrears stand at £16k made up of arrears management fees,litigation fees,unpaid DD fees & interest added on the arrears etc.

We have missed another 4 payments on top of this trying to keep up with what they wanted us to pay,some months it was touching nearly £1400pm.

As for the judge I'm sure he will come down on them as they have breached his order & contempt of court.

This has been going on now since Nov 06, I just hope it gets resolved pretty soon as my patience is wearing thin & im so close to throwing the towel in.

B-O-2- With regards to ITN they are still doing there research on securitisation & repossessions & will be in touch.

[jansus]

Thanks for that - I really feel for you as although with another company you may incurr charges for being in arrears - it seems the norm now, these do seem an extremely large amount for a small lapse caused by a genuine situtation

 

I was discussing this on another site and years ago there were no additional charges for arrears unless you were at the possession stage as I guess the admin involved was factored in to the business overheads ,so to speak, for all loans.

 

When you miss payments you are aleady charged extra interest as your debt is not being reduced so then to charge a monthly fee on top of that seems very unfair. Especially when in cases I have seen they sometimes do not even write letters or try to assist the borrower.

 

Really hope it goes ok for you

[lilylis]

Hi,

I have reading with avid interest about the 'delightful' London Mortgage Co and wondered if any of you could possibly help me with my current predicament...

My ex husband left the marital home in 2005 leaving me and our three children in a house with a huge mortgage and two secured loans on top. I was unable to work as two of my children are disabled, subsequently all repayments fell into arrears (despite my desperate attempts to get help..) and the house was repossessed. Unfortunately the house sold with a shortfall, barely covering the mortgage so left the two secured loans unpaid. At the time, the third charge on the property (welcome finance) agreed to transfer their outstanding balance to a personal joint loan between my ex and i which my ex (at the time) agreed to pay. London personal loans (as they stated as their company name) battled for months for their shortfall.

I offered to pay them the princely sum of £10 per month (which was accepted by a rep arriving unannounced at my door) but my ex neither offered nor made a payment towards it. Unknown to me he also stopped paying the loan to Welcome Finance. To add insult to injury he declared himself bankrupt last year and i have now become solely liable for both debts, totalling approximately £40,000 now.

I have sent a CCA request to Welcome but have received no response, i sent the same to London Mortgage Company and they responded stating they were not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that they require a £10 fee and a letter signed by both myself and my ex requesting a copy of information they hold under the data protection act 1998.

I am at a loss with this company, i have no idea what the figures were from the repossession of the house as it was such a traumatic time.

I cannot ask my ex to sign the letter firstly because he'd refuse anyway and also as there is no communication between us anymore.

Any help you could give would be great

Lily

[brassed-off-2]

Hi Lily

 

It sounds like you have had a bit of a rough ride with everything over the last few years or so...unfortunately i dont feel able to offer you any sound advice other than, maybe go and see someone at your local CAB, if you havent done so already, they may be able to mediate between you and your ex, to try to get hime to sign paperwork etc, negotiate with your creditors, or maybe point you in the right direction or other specialised help in these matters...

Im sure someone will be along shortly that might be able to answer at least one of your problems..sorry i cant help more.

 

Take care and good luck

B-O-2

[littledotty27]

Ive just tried paying mortgage payment,what a nightmare,the git on the phone came back and told me it had been declined,told him to try again as I put £900 in cash into bank a/c today.

He said its not his problem my card declined and to get onto bank.

Bank said there is no problem and card should not decline.

Rang back again said it did same thing also asked me for password on a/c,told him didnt have one,he said we have,he got quite arsy tbh.

I feel they wont accept my payment so they can say in court on tues that we are not keeping up with payments & go for reposession.

 

Im close to yelling,ive had enough now!!

Does anyone know what I can do to make them accept my payment as they have done this before & refused it.

[scedminc]

Hi LittleDotty.

 

Like you say it sounds like they dont want your payment so they can make you look bad. The only thing I can think of is keep a record of the date and time of calls and names etc. Do a transfer from your bank online if you have the facilities or go to a branch and do it. Although the payment will show late on your account you would be able to show the courts payments was made before the end of month and explain about the calls. If they argue then ask the court to adjourn the hearing and ask the court to order them to disclose call logs which relate to today. If you can call them back and record the call so the judge can see how stupid these people are.

 

Thats all I can think of which is probably not ideal. Maybe someone else can suggest better?

[littledotty27]

Hi Scedminc

They have tried this before,so we sent a chaps payment paying an extra £30 and they returned it.

The bloke was so rude and arrogant on the phone.

I lodged a complaint last year with re to the advisors being rude.

I will attempt again tomorrow

[scedminc]

I cant write on here what I think of these underhand idiots. If you are trying tomorrow then record the call and take it as evidence to court. You do not need to tell them you are recording the call. Instead of doing a CHAP's and paying extra I would just do a regular bank transfer. The account number will probably be the same as you used for the CHAP's and use your mortgage account number for the payment reference. That is all you can probably do. At least you wont be made to look bad in court and the tables will be turned. I know how annoying these idiots are and I feel like shouting at them all the time. I tend to just keep calm and ask difficult questions instead. They soon do what you ask within reason as they want to get rid of you.

[midge61]

littledotty

 

I have sent you a pm that may help:D

[midge61]

As an alternative you can go into a Barclays branch and use the same details I have sent via pm to pay over the counter and you will get a stamped stub as proof of payment.

[littledotty27]

I have decided I am going to go to court tomorrow & explain to them that they wont accept my payments,then they can note it on the file ready for the judge to see on tues.

Talking of judges...whats the differance between a district judge & a deputy district judge? only it has been changed to a deputy for the hearing.