Non Responce by A&L

[Sophie-Jane]

Settled in Full

 

No Conditions as this account is closed anyhow, and they cannot close a closed account, even thou they tried to say they would review my account - LOL until I told them that it was CLOSED

 

Even the Interest has been paid, after I stated that I was claiming under section 69 of the County Courts Act

 

Suppose in future cases, I will have to add the interest in the TOTAL of the Claim, My mistake there I think ???

 

But All settled

 

Just waiting for Equidebt to Provide me with the true signed copy of Agreement and the Deed of assignment, which to date they have not provided

 

Equidebt has been reported to the Trading Standards, Not Heard anything from them as Yet, apart from telling Trading standards what part of the Consumer Credit Act that they have breeched.

 

Equidebt threatened further action, and and said I was in breech of the agreement, and if I do not pay in full, they would start Legal Action

 

Day later, they sent a letter asking me to call to get a Settlement Figure, Which I have not done so

 

As I feel, this was not a debt in the first place, ok, it may of been my balance at closure of A&L account, That was the charges that had been applied

 

They have not proved they are legally able to enforce the debt, and have been warned by the following letter

 

A&L have also committed an offence, as they are also unable to supple the True Signed agreement and / or the Deed of assignment, both which still have not come into my hands as yet

 

________________

 

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

XXXXXXX

XXXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXX

 

EquiDebt Limited

Equity House

Ettington Road

Wellesbourne

Warwickshire

CV35 9GA

 

 

 

 

Re – XXXXXXXX\X\X

 

17th June 2006

 

 

 

Reference: Alliance & Leicester / XXXXXXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

In reference to my letter dated 6th June 2006, You are now Committed an offence and are now going to be reported to Trading Standards forthwith, and also this alleged debt is Unenforceable, since you have failed to provide the information requested in the letter dated 6th June 2006.

 

My details should never have been passed to you in the first instance and this letter serves as a formal warning to desist immediately from any form of contact with me or I shall begin court proceedings against you for harassment and Unlawful collection of such alleged Debt.

 

Whereas I have been a customer of Alliance & Leicester and whereas I consented in my contract with them to the disclosure by them of certain data to third parties, at no time did I consent and neither was it within the contemplation of the parties to the contract that I did consent to the processing by them of that data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act 1998

 

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of charges which have been applied to my account in respect of defaults or contractual breaches and where the said charges which have been levied at a rate which is in excess of the administrative costs incurred by you as a consequence of the said defaults or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

[Matheos95]

WOW your story has been fascinating reading CONGRATULATIONS I hope after all this even the debt is written off too due to their incompetence - WAY TO GO!!!

[DRIVERS]

CONGRATS on getting money back, on the issue of DCA's how can u find out whether or not the debt is owned by the company or is just beingdealt with bt the company, as sooner or later hope to start negotiations on settlements and this info wud be useful, scanning thru papers i have they seem to be very vague on this point, will it be in one of the letters and i have missed it.

[Sophie-Jane]

CONGRATS on getting money back, on the issue of DCA's how can u find out whether or not the debt is owned by the company or is just beingdealt with bt the company, as sooner or later hope to start negotiations on settlements and this info wud be useful, scanning thru papers i have they seem to be very vague on this point, will it be in one of the letters and i have missed it.

 

Best advise I heard is about the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Send a letter off to both The Originator and the Debt Collection Agency requesting a Copy of "True Signed Agreement and also the Deed of Assignment"

 

Do this after any Data Protection Act Request,

 

Here is what I've sent

_________________

 

 

_________________

TO DCA

 

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

 

 

XXXXXXX

 

XXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

XXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXX

XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

Re – ACCOUNT

 

 

Thursday 6th July 2006

 

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

 

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

Please be aware that I do NOT acknowledge this debt to your company, and therefore require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

 

Firstly, you must supply me with a true copy of the agreement you refer to in this matter. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

I also require that you supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

You have 12 working days to comply, after which, I will deem you to be in default and then you are unable to legally enforce the Debt owed, after 1 calendar month, you would of committed an offence, which I would be able to report you to the Trading standards, if I so wish.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

 

____________________

TO A&L

 

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

 

 

XXXXXXX

 

XXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

XXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXX

XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

Re – ACCOUNT

 

 

Thursday 6th July 2006

 

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

 

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

 

Firstly, you must supply me with a true copy of the agreement you refer to in this matter. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

I also require that you supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

You have 12 working days to comply, after which, I will deem you to be in default and then you are unable to legally enforce the Debt owed, after 1 calendar month, you would of committed an offence, which I would be able to report you to the Trading standards, if I so wish.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

[DRIVERS]

thank you for response, i have paperwork from the originator of 1 debt and am awaiting the paperwork from the another originator, am i rite thinkin that info mite be found in said paperwork, and if it isnt they havent provided me with full information.

[Sophie-Jane]

Update

 

I have now received paper work off A&L, and they say a deed of assignment is not needed for this type of agreement

 

 

Equidebt which was collecting the aleged debt, have not made contact in reference to the Deed of Assignment or a True copy of the signed agreement.

 

But, I did get a letter saying I've defaulted on the agreement from them, and the day later, Received a letter asking me to call to get a settlement figure.

 

So one day threaten court action etc, next one, Offer me to call to get a settlement figure

 

 

Where do I go from here, Do I write a letter to A&L asking them if the alleged debt was sold to Equidebt, or are Equidebt just collecting on behalf of A&L ????

____________

Letter on the go, Please let me know what you think

____________

To A&L

 

 

Dear Mr Gregory

 

Re your letter dated 4th August 2006, Re Deed of Assignment.

 

You say a Deed of assignment is not applicable for this type of agreement, now how does that reflect when Equidebt are trying to collect this Debt, which was brought about by Alliance & Leicester unlawfully taking monies which they were never entitled to.

 

I cannot recognise Equidebt as legal collectors for the alleged debt that is owed, until such time you acknowledge if you sold on the alleged debt to them or they are acting on your behalf to collect the alleged debt.

 

If the Alleged debt was sold to Equidebt, I Need the deed of assignment, and the letter that I was supposed to receive to inform me that the alleged debt was being processed by Equidebt, Which I never received a letter to that fact.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

____________

 

Its a NONE reply to Equidebt, they still have not provided me with Either a True Signed Copy of the Agreement, or a Deed of assignment..

 

Please advise, should I just ignore Equidebt, or deal with the debt now the Charges issue with A&L are sorted.

 

Shoud I send the letter above, to get clarification on if the debt is sold or Equidebt is dealing with it on A&L behalf ??

 

Thought I had stopped asking questions, But hey ho,, I still need to know a few things, so that these parasites do not walk over us Good people of this land

[Sophie-Jane]

Hi

 

In a letter settling the last 6 yrs, I was told by their solicitor that a few were statue barred, but to close they paid

 

Now is Over 6 yrs charges Statue Barred - or can I still try and get these back, if so, I will be working out soon how much more they have unlawfully taken

[Sophie-Jane]

Update on this - Advise would be appreciated on what I can do next

 

This is my Prelim letter, after finding out that they do not hold financial details past 6 and half years.

 

___________________

Dear M Boyes

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account Since inception of account on 26th January 1996 to Charges levied up to 10th April 2000.

 

I am claiming these charges back due to section 32 (1)(b) of the Limitation Act 1980, which states the following

 

32.--

• (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-
  • (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or
    
  • (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or
    
  • © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake

The regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. If you say that they are not then you will pleased to demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

You concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £2104:50, As of the above date the interest charged if this matter also went to court is £1401:65 @ 8% APR, Making a total of £3506:15.

 

This is of course an estimated value, and as you stated, you do not keep records past 6 ½ yrs, which unless I am proved wrong in my calculation, this is the full amount which I am claiming from YOU either directly or via the courts.

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting unconditionally my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

[Sophie-Jane]

Today, I received a reply back from this letter from the Solicitor who paid me out previously

 

Here is her reply -

____________________

 

We refer to your fax addressed to Mr Boyes dated 23rd August in relation to bank charges pre-dating 2000. You have correctly highlighted that the limitation Act only allows recovery for a period of 6 years. You rely on Section 32 (1)(b), which extends the limitation period in certain circumstances. There have been no deliberate concealment, nor indeed any concealment, deliberate or otherwise of the charges added to your account and we fail to see therefore how this arguement can suceed. Whilst we have reimbursed your charges from 200 onwards, as we indicated in our letter this was not because we considered our charges to be unfair or unreasonable.

 

Should you decide to pursue a claim for these charges we would ask you please mark this for the writers attention so that your claim is dealt with promptly.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jackie McGuirk

 

 

______________________

 

All advise would be appreciated, and I am considering quite seriously at continuing this fight to the very end.

[caro]

Well you do like a challenge don't you SJ?lol

 

I am not an expert in this field so am just going to post my thoughts for what they are worth.

 

1. I think some people have got money back going back over 6 years.

2. They are trying to fob you off.

3. The time limit seems to hinge on deliberate concealment. No banks have yet revealed how these charges are made up, so this is concealment.

4. There is also the issue of how long it is since you discovered the fraud concealment or mistake, which I assume is this year.

 

The more I think about it the more I think you should go for this and not be fobbed off, assuming that you are happy to risk losing your court fee. The allocation questionnaire template has a request for standard disclosure which we know they do not want.

 

For the benefit of anyone else reading this thread, can I point out that Sophie-Jane has already successfully claimed back her 6 years charges. I would never recommend this course of action if that was not so. If she is unsuccessful the money she has so far is safe. ALWAYS stick to six years for your first claim, because if you go back further and the claim fails you may not be able to claim the six years worth of charges again, so do not even think about this if you are claiming for the first time.

[Sophie-Jane]

Thanks Caro for that info, it has given me the push I needed.

 

Here is my LBA Letter for this

 

Sent 30th Aug 2006

__________________

 

Letter Before Action

Dear Jackie McGuirk

Re your letter dated 25th August 2006.

I take into account of your points raised, however, If my previous case was allowed to proceed all the way to the court as I had proposed, I would of set president of the fact that Alliance & Leicester had taken charges from customers unlawfully, and also proved that Alliance & Leicester had Deliberately / or otherwise concealed this very fact.

Now certain of my facts and points of law, that all charges that Alliance & Leicester has levied against my now closed account, are in Fact Unlawful and Alliance & Leicester have concealed these facts and due to this, I am legally able to claim in regard to Section 32 (1) (b) of the Limitation Act 1980.

As you are also aware, I will proceed further, and let a Judge decide.

As you are aware, the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to mine and many other customers accounts in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

Again, I will draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I calculate that you have taken £2104:50, as of the above date the interest charged if this matter also went to court is £1404:43 @ 8% APR, Making a total of £3508:93.

Note, this is an estimate figure.

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

_____________

 

Like you said Caro, I do love a challange, and these at A&L are not having an easy ride with me,

 

[caro]

I like your confidence and certainty SJ. I am not sure that I feel the same, because as I pointed out, those were my thoughts only and not necessarily fact. That said, they can always try and prove you wrong, in court preferably, and then we will all know one way or the other.

[Sophie-Jane]

That is the point I'm banking on, That they will actually go ahead and present a case at court, which I am sure they will not.

 

Another point, Is that now I won the first stage, the debt that I owed A&L, that was passed onto a DCA

 

That was sold on for a fraction of the actual balance

 

i.e Balance owed - £1000

 

DCA possibly paid £50 - £100 for it

 

So if I take that to court, that the original debt should never of happened, cause of unlawful charges, then surely, I only owe what the DCA paid for the balance

[caro]

Or would you owe anything at all? If there had been no charges, would there have been no debt? If there was no debt, it would not have gone to the DCA. Just me thinking aloud again really, but thinking about it logically that is what I have come up with, rightly or wrongly.

[Sophie-Jane]

Or would you owe anything at all? If there had been no charges, would there have been no debt? If there was no debt, it would not have gone to the DCA. Just me thinking aloud again really, but thinking about it logically that is what I have come up with, rightly or wrongly.

 

Seems logical, but

 

When my account was closed, it had an minus balance , it was in the overdraft facility

 

But I have claimed back my charges, which was more than what I owed in the overdraft.

 

I did not pay off the DCA, as that was not really in my best interest

 

But now, I've decided to go for A&L again, and it may not stop there, it may also end up with a Compensation claim too, for sending me into Depression, due to excessive charges and also demands, which No one could expect to pay back in 14 days or even 28 days.

[caro]

Ok:)

[DRIVERS]

have just been reading through your thread, and was wondering, were the statements you had dating before 2000, statements you had kept filed or statements you used the Limitation Act 1980 to get.

[Sophie-Jane]

I found out that A&L only keep statements to issue for a max of 6 1/2 years only

 

So I am placing the burden on them to prove how much that is actually owed, and to prove it

[lancsman]

Hi Sophie welcome back,i didn,t know you were going for A&L as well way to go.They now owe me £25.00 for a paid bounced D.D.

Asked for it back,no go,so now i,m going to start a thread against them too!!!

 

Glad you got some money back but like you so rightly say,it doesn,t do your health any good cos your allways worried about paying the interest you owe them etc,etc.

Are they all as bad as each other?Maybe not,Nationwide paid me back way before court?

hope it goes well for you now me ducks as they say in sunny lincs.

[Sophie-Jane]

Thanks John

 

Go for it John, nothing to loose really, but time, but ten again, the interest will be pilling on, ok only pence

 

Should have no probs

 

Hey, its gone quite around here, oh, my youngest has gone to school, oh Bless

[Sophie-Jane]

Well an Update

 

Just received this letter from A&L Litigation Team

 

__________________

 

Dear

 

Re Account xxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of 30th August. We note your comments, however, any action that is issued will be strenuously defended and will be subject to an application to strike out. Please ensure that any papers are served at the above address and marked for my attention.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jackie McGuirk

 

___________________________

 

 

Well well, is this my first letter that is written by them, instead of being automated ??

 

Well, I feel that they are trying to scare me, Am I right or wrong to think this

 

If I'm right, a "strike out" I take it would be on the grounds that the original case was not proven in court, but proven in my eyes as they paid up in full.

Also possibly a "Strike out" on the basis of its over 6 yrs, but my claim would state that I feel that they have hid the fact that the charges were unlawful.

 

Any advise on what I should do, should I just enter a Claim - moneyclaim or should I react to their letter first ??

 

Thanks in advance

[lancsman]

|Hi Soph j In the small claims book "striking out"It says"In considering whether to strike out a case the District Judge will consider whether a fair hearing is possible if the case were to continue.

Claims and defences alike are liable to be struck out if they are plainly hopeless or mischievious.Such cases can be struck out at an early stage (rule 3.4 and accomp practice direction)

 

It also states if a case is struck out it may be re-instated.

 

 

its all quite complex but i do remember seeing somewhere on here that the banks have quite plainly been telling untruths and hiding their true costs for some considerable time about their charges and in doing so they have withheld the true facts from their clients,so the time factor doesnt cut in.something like that maybe you need to p.m.someone maybe "reload"as he,s well switched on..

[Sophie-Jane]

I have decided not to persue this side of the action, since now I have settled this in Full with the DCA

 

Below is the Letter I sent to the DCA

________________

 

Dear Sir/Madam

In light of new information that has been sent to me, I now acknowledge that the alleged debt was sold onto you by Alliance & Leicester plc.

Alliance & Leicester had not / and still not informed me of such action, as the account IS STILL IN dispute, and unenforceable

Since there is still a dispute about this alleged debt, and that court action is a possibility, I therefore seek that you cease chasing an unlawful debt, When I win this case in court, Alliance & Leicester had no lawful reason to sell you an unlawful debt, and as such, you are acting unlawfully trying to collect an unlawful debt, which I will make a court claim against Equidebt for such unlawful activity.

You were sold this debt for a very small portion of its alleged value, and what value you paid for this unlawful debt, is what I would only be prepared to pay, and I will take this to court if you try and collect any more than its original Purchase price from Alliance & Leicester, which is around 5% to 10% or in other words £66:88 to £133:77, Since you have collected £105:05, you would only be allowed to collect a further MAX of £28:62, Which is now the Maximum, I will be willing to pay once my case against Alliance & Leicester is sorted.

If you are unwilling to accept this offer, I will take this matter to court, and allow a judge decide on the best course of action, and also ensure that YOU disclose what you actually paid for this unlawful debt, which should never have been passed onto you in the first instance.

If you are uncertain, on what action to take at this stage, seek legal Advise immediately.

You have 14 days to Reply, if no reply is received by 15th September, I take it that you accept my offer of £28:62 as FULL and Final Settlement

Yours faithfully

_________________

 

I received a letter back on the 14th Sep 2006, accepting the £28:62 as full and final settlement

But also saying they do not agree with my liability of the debt, Well they would, as they would of wanted the full figure

 

Shame I do not get a penny, but at least, its another Debt off my hands, a few more to work at now.

 

Just hope this letter helps others, who have had their debts sold to DCA's

[Sophie-Jane]

Oh, Remember to

 

THINK POSITIVELY

[lancsman]

Remember to THINK might help A & L on a slight back burner whilst i concentrate on Lloyds and Northern Rock...

all the best john.