Do you Have to be very specific when requesting a SAR?

[topoftherock]

Hi guys, I was recommended to join this forum by someone on MSE

Hopefully, I can get more help here. So here goes: 

 

I’ve had a reply from Vauxhall Finance which states “our data retention policy states we are only required to keep records for 6 years after the closure of any agreement.

 

Due to the age of your agreement, this cannot be located within Vauxhall Finance’s internal record”.

 

Morses Club stated “due to our internal data retention policy, we are unable to provide you with any information in relation to your DSAR request.

 

As a result, the information we might have held for you has now been purged from our systems” and “our data retention policy prevents us from holding data exceeding six years,

 

if the accounts have been settled over six years ago it is likely we no longer hold information relating to this.

 

I don’t believe them at all, as I’ve had info going back 15-20 years with several other companies.

 

Moreover, I notice how they say “LIKELY we no longer hold information relating to this”.

 

This makes me think they are covering themselves just in case they got caught out.

 

This makes me think they DO have the information.

 

Can I take this further in any way?

 

Kind regards 

[topoftherock]

Hi guys,

I’m helping my mother with her PPI complaints, and

 

in one scenario, a bank is saying that an investigation took place in 2012 (as a result of her enquiry) regarding 5 loans and they found no PPI.

My mother has no recollection of this,

 

however, they have sent apparent “final response” letters from 2012 which say they conducted a search and found no PPI (because my mother chose to opt out of having PPI).

I’ve asked them to send evidence of my mother’s apparent 2012 enquiry (e.g her letter) but not heard anything back.

 

What do you think?

Should we believe them?

P.S what makes it strange, is that when we phoned up earlier this month asking about PPI on her several loans ,

they didn’t initially mention the previous 5 loans (even though I told them my mother had several loans with them going back to the late 80s).

They only mentioned that they are currently investigating one loan from 2004-2007.

It was only when I phoned again, they told me about the previous 5 loans! (And then I asked to send me evidence of this).

 

In total I phoned up 3 times, and each customer service representative was holding back certain information e.g one said they didn’t know the loan amount, another said it was for £8,000, another said they didn’t know when the 2004 loan ended.

 

Now this is where I’m confused .... if they did carry out an investigation into 5 loans in 2012, why didn’t they include the 2004-2007 loan?

Things don’t add up to me, and I feel something fishy is going on.

[dx100uk]

send them an sar

[topoftherock]

4 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

send them an sar

Hi, thanks for the reply. Well, in fact, I’ve requested SARs with all PPI enquiries/complaints, (i.e both on the same letter) so just awaiting their response (in writing) now. 

[topoftherock]

Hi Guys,

I’ve made several SARs in which I’ve asked the companies to provide me with copies of all my personal data.

And then I said this INCLUDES: copies of original loan/credit agreements and the terms and conditions of those agreements.

 

I also want/expect to receive bank statements from the period(s) in question,

but I didn’t explicitly say “provide me with bank statements”.

 

So, should I expect to receive the statements as part of a standard SAR?

Or do you Have to be very precise/specific in relation to what you want from a SAR?

 

Moreover, I know this is a long shot (I know about the so-called “6 year retention policy”), but I’m wondering if I could get statements going back 20 years?

I’ve had statements going back 10 with HSBC,

but I’m pretty sure I’ve read elsewhere of people having statements from 11, even 15 years ago.

 

I’m wondering what is the best route?

Go to a local branch and ask for statements as far back as they can go?

(As a Barclays customer advisor suggested over the phone).

Or Write another SAR and be specific this time about what statements I want from what period?

[Andyorch]

Copies of credit/loan agreements with terms and conditions are normally requested by way of section 77 or 78 request with the relevant £1 fee..not by SAR.

 

Andy

[Andyorch]

Hi  ...for what reason are you requesting the data for ?

 

Andy

[topoftherock]

7 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Copies of credit/loan agreements with terms and conditions are normally requested by way of section 77 or 78 request with the relevant £1 fee..not by SAR.

 

Andy

Wow, thanks for the reply. So glad I was advised to join this forum. Much better with friendly people. Please can you explain what the above means? (Section 77 or 78). How would I write this? Moreover, what information does a SAR normally give then? 

[topoftherock]

6 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Hi  ...for what reason are you requesting the data for ?

 

Andy

For PPI purposes. I want to check to see if PPI was added onto the Hire Purchase (Vauxhall finance)  and personal Loans (Shopacheck/Welcome finance). 

[Andyorch]

 

DSAR ( data subject access request ) A subject access request (SAR) is simply a written request made by or on behalf of an individual for the information which he or she is entitled to ask for under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA).

 

Credit and loan and HP agreements fall under sections 77 and 78 and 79 of the CCA1974 (Consumer Credit Act)

[dx100uk]

real question is

WHY do you need this info?

 

dx

 

[Andyorch]

I have created your own topic in the appropriate forum ...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

PPI reclaims are over pointless

 

dx

 

[topoftherock]

Hi, please correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand  that if PPI was added, it would be on the agreements (and if not on the agreements, it would be shown on bank statements e.g for credit card PPI)

[dx100uk]

just type no need to hit quote

or change fonts

 

have you already have a ppi complaint registered with each of the firms?

[dx100uk]

various threads merged to one topic.

[topoftherock]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

 

As I’m new to the forum, I wasn’t sure how to post correctly.

 

my issue is this.

I’ve had several replies from companies which have said there is no PPI record.

I don’t believe them.

 

They’ve pretty much ignored what I requested for on the SARs,

this is why I’m thinking about what to write in my reply letter. 

 

For loan, HP, mortgage, overdraft PPI, I understand that the PPI information will be on the original agreements.

Is this correct?

 

I’ve also read that with credit card PPI, it was always on the systems.

Is this correct? 

 

I’ve submitted complaints to all firms.

several have written back saying that there is no evidence of PPI.

they Have not provided me what I was requesting on the SAR.

 

And I know the banks lie, so I don’t believe them.

I want to see the original agreements/statements in order to check for myself and therefore satisfy my own mind.

 

I very much have the attitude “nothing ventured nothing gained”, so this is not a waste of time for me.

 

Can I also get access to mortgage/overdraft agreements via section 77, 78 and 79?

Kind regards

 

dx, I read your post from October 2014 which states (in reference to the Consumer Credit Act 1974)- 

 

"for ref:

 

Fixed loans are section 77

 

credit cards and catalogues are section 78

 

HP agreements are section 79" 

 

Is this still applicable now? 

 

Moreover, which section is relevant for mortgages and current account/business account overdrafts? 

 

Kind regards

 

[Andyorch]

Yes.... but Overdrafts are not covered by the same legislation although you can request a copy of the " Facility Agreement " by way of 61b of the CCA1974

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/61B

 

With regards to Mortgages up  until 6 April 2008, consumer credit agreements which were valued in excess of £25,000 were not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA 1974”). 

Andy

[topoftherock]

Hi Andy, many thanks again!

 

Well, the mortgage was from 1984 to 2003 (i.e paid off early in 2003)  and was for £16,500.

Therefore, would this mortgage be regulated?

And if so, what section would apply? 

 

If I want to request bank statements, would this also come under the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

If so, what section would this be under? 

Kind regards 

[Andyorch]

Just now, topoftherock said:

Hi again, If I want to request bank statements, would this also come under the Consumer Credit Act 1974? If so, what section would this be under? 

Kind regards 

 

 

No That comes under a SAR as per my post' 6 above

 

5 minutes ago, topoftherock said:

Hi Andy, many thanks again! Well, the mortgage was from 1984 to 2003 (i.e paid off early in 2003)  and was for £16,500. Therefore, would this mortgage be regulated? And if so, what section would apply? 

 

Kind regards 

 

No .....mortgages from 7th April 2008

 

 

[topoftherock]

Hi Andy, thanks for your reply.

As you can appreciate, I'm a layman and not an expert in this area,  so  let's see if I've followed correctly

 

-loans (fixed)=section 77 of the CCA 1974

-credit cards and catalogues =section 78 of the CCA 1974

-overdrafts=section 61b of the CCA 1974 

Hire Purchase=section 79 of the CCA 1974 

-bank statements=SAR 

 

-In regard to the mortgage in question, it wasn't in excess of £25,000? (it was for £16,500). 

So are you saying, it still wasn't regulated?

Is there any way, I can get access to the mortgage statements and original mortgage agreements?

(there were two; one in 1984 and another in 1995; before it was eventually paid off in 2003). 

 

Many thanks 

[Andyorch]

Yes all correct.

 

If the mortgage was less than 25K then it could have been regulated by the CCA1974...the agreement would confirm yes or no.

[topoftherock]

Thanks Andy, you are a star! 

Would mortgage  statements  (they were annual statements) also come under SAR?

Or in fact, would any form of statements, come under SAR? 

 

In regard to the mortgage agreement, when I ask for it, do I just quote something like  "I would like a copy of the original mortgage agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974"?  i.e instead of stating a specific  section  of it? 

 

Why I'm asking this is because I already asked for the original mortgage  agreement at the beginning of August 19 ( i.e on the section of my letter  where I mentioned  I would like to make a SAR)  and Halifax have not provided this information to me. 

 

Kind regards

 

[Andyorch]

All statements and data are requested using SAR...unless you manually request just statements your self at branch....but they will charge a fee.

 

As for the Mortgage agreement you use the template already provided...section 77.The reason they have not provided it is because you didn't use a section 77 request.

[topoftherock]

Hi Andy, ah OK, I see.

Thanks again!

 

And another thing;

I've read that if there is no outstanding balance, you may not be able to access the information under the CCA 1974?.

Is this correct?

Can I still access this information? 

 

With all my PPI complaints, the credit cards/loans/HP agreement/overdrafts/mortgage are all finished/there are no balances outstanding/everything has been paid off . 

 

Kind regards