CRS/Harlands - Ongoing dispute, need advice

[Helel]

Hi all,

 

Receiving the usual CRS monetary demands after they're claiming that I am in arrears. I have looked for advise as a lurker on this forum before and have sent one letter to them but it's gotten to the point where I would like personal advise on what to say (if anything at all) to Harlands. The second letter I received from them is a bunch of waffle that seems to want to scare me into paying but I am not sure what to reply with - hence me coming here.

 

Some background - I joined Xerise4less (Hull branch) on a 12 month contract in September 2015. I fulfilled the contract and e-mailed Xerise4less requesting cancellation on to two separate occasions: on 29th October 2016, and 12th November. I only received an e-mail back on 15th November telling me that my cancellation was being processed. Worth noting that I didn't attend during the last 6 or so months of the contract.

 

Due to monetary concerns and the fear that I would be charged another £9.99 (one month according to the contract), a fear that I felt was founded to their lackluster response time, I cancelled my direct debit with them a day or two after receiving the e-mail. This triggered the CRS dispute and now they want £207.47.

 

Fast forward to 7th February 2017 and I receive a letter stating the following:

 

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Letter no.1 from CRS

 

Dear Mr.XXX,

 

We've been employed by Xercise4less as your membership remains in arrears despite previous letters being sent to you (NB - I did not receive a prior letter).

 

As a result of this, our fees totalling £102.50 have been added. Therefore, your account balance now stands at £207.47.

 

We want to reach an amicable resolution with you! (NB - What followed was the usual giving of options for me to pay or continue with my membership)

 

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Receiving this was quite the shocker so I went online and stumbled upon people experiencing the same issues on this forum. After reading the countless threads and following the advice of mst notably slick132, I sent them the following letter back:

 

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Letter from me

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your letter of 7 February 2017, referencing: CRS Ref No. xxx, xercise4less Ref No:xxx. This is the first letter I have received regarding this matter. For clarification my current address is: xxx

 

I joined on minimum 12 month agreement in September 2015 and paid the full 12 months as well as an additional month. I sent an e-mail requesting that xercise4less cancel my membership on 29 October 2016. I received an e-mail back on 15 November 2016, notifying me that my cancellation would be processed. Because of this late reply and my current financial hardships I cancelled my direct debit mandate soon after to ensure that no further money would be taken. This was also adequate notice of my cancellation of the xercise4less agreement, as per the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Mgt Services Ltd in 2011.

 

However, I now realise I should have given Harlands or the gym a month's notice before cancelling the direct debit. I now offer to pay one final month's fee of £9.99 to end this matter. I will not pay any unlawful admin fees added by Harlands/CRS.

 

Before I pay, I need you to confirm in writing that my payment will be accepted in settlement of all that I owe. My offer is valid for 14 days and, if you make demands for any higher amount, I will pay you nothing.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

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After reading the multiple threads I knew I was in for a fight. The second letter I received is the one that caused a bit of concern - my mum is worried about bailiffs although I've assured her that they won't come. This is it (warning long post):

 

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Letter no. 2 from CRS (8th March)

 

We wish to advise that cancelling your direct debit was not adequate notice of your intention to cancel. The terms of your agreement specifically state that you must give notice in writing. We have received similar claims before. You are mistaken with regards to Mr. Justice Kitchin's ruling. Such a statement does not appear anywhere in Mr. Justice Kitchin's judgement.

 

A legal precedent can only be drawn from a ruling but the statement you rely upon appears in the Penal Notice issued specifically to Ashbourne Management Services Limited, advising them what they must and must not do.

 

This only applies to Ashbourne Management Services Limited because contracts 1-13 examined in this case were found to be unfair and thus unenforceable. Xercise4less contracts have not been supplied by Ashbourne Management Services Limited and have never been deemed unfair by a judge. There is, therefore, no reason to believe that the terms regarding how a member may terminate their agreement will not be enforceable in other instances.

 

We are unable to accept your offer of £9.99 as sufficient to settle this debt because more than one month has passed without payment. As you did not complete the cancellation procedure, the club were bound by the contract to hold your membership open for you. A service has been provided during this time, at cost to the club, whether you attended or not.

 

With regards to your comments that our charges are penalties, it is our position that all charges applied to this balance are to over actual and necessary costs and thus are not penalties. Lord Dunedin, when considering whether charges stipulated at the outset of the agreement were penalties, set out in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v Motor Co Ltd (1914) that:

 

'It is no obstacle to the sum stipulated being a genuine pre-estimate of damage, that the consequences of the breach are such as to make precise pre-estimation almost an impossibility. On the contrary, that is just the situation when it is probable that pre-estimated damage was the true bargain between the parties (Clydebank Case, Lord Haisbury; Webster v. Bosanquet, Lord Mersey).'

 

The above applies to the charges of £25.00 applied by Harlands and also in regards to our own collection fees of £66.50 both of which are pre-estimates of the average costs incurred from defaulted agreements, but which vary from case to case and cannot be precisely calculated in advance. We believe, therefore, that these charges do not constitute a penalty and are this fully enforceable.

 

For the above reasons it must remain our position that the balance of £207.47 is correct and due. We may be able to negotiate on this sum, but would require you to contact one of our telephone negotiators on 01444 449 165 in order to do so. Payment can be made (NB - Address, no. etc. they give with intent for me to pay)

 

Please ensure a payment or response is received within the next 7 days, so we can avoid further action being taken.

 

Yours sincerely,

David Castle

 

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I guess my request is - Was my first letter sufficient? What should I respond with? Should I respond? Help is greatly appreciated Thank your for your time!

[dx100uk]

ignore!!

 

bugger and all they can do

 

and bailiffs can never be involved unless it goes to court [none have in +5yrs]

you refuse to pay the CCJ

they send bailiffs.

 

so put them RIGHT out of your mums head

even IF IF IF that did happen.

they still have NO RIGHT OF ENTRY.

 

twill be as you have already seen

scary letters from powerless debt collectors..

and them using scary letterheads pretending to be solicitors in the same printer...

 

ignore

then ignore some more

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi Helel and welcome to CAG

 

Please reassure your mum that this matter will NOT result in any bailiffs visiting. This simply doesn't happen because Harlands usually don't have decent grounds to take court action and this isn't what they do.

 

Please note it doesn't matter at all whether you used the gym or not. It's irrelevant.

 

We know you gave notice on 29th October but what date was the last DD taken by Harlands ?

 

Ignore all comm'ns from Harlands/CRS for now and never speak to them by phone.

 

[Helel]

Thanks for the welcome and reassurance guys I figured ignore would be the best choice.

 

The last DD was taken out on 28th October 2016 and that was the 13th payment they took from me.

 

Thanks again for the advice. You guys are saints

[slick132]

Hi Helel,

 

If you gave notice to cancel on 29th Oct, you should have allowed one further pay't to be taken by the DD at the end of Nov 2016 before cancelling the DD mandate.

 

So, to put matters right, you need to offer what you should have paid before stopping the DD mandate. Luckily, Harlands are just TOO greedy to take what you offer and will demand more. That's their downfall !

 

Use one of my letters to offer Harlands the £9.99 for the DD that you now realise you should have paid at the end of November 2016, the offer valid for 14 days only.

 

There are plenty of these on Harlands threads !

 

[Helel]

Hey slick,

 

I mention in the main post that I did send them a letter realising my mistake and offered £9.99 through a letter template I had found on these forums.

 

They replied, declining that offer, and I have typed out their reply in the main post. It's near the bottom of my post.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Helel

[slick132]

Sorry Helel,

 

I'm not very good with long posts !!

 

In that case, you need do nothing further for now except ignore Harlands/CRS begging letters.

 

I'd wait until their conduct amounts to harassment (in your view) then lodge complaints to Trading Standards, The CMA and X4Less Head Office.

 

[Helel]

Hi all, thanks again for your advise. I have an update! I received a letter on the 22nd March threatening legal action in a letter that I believe you have all read before:

 

'We would still like to reach an amicable resolution to this... The options are available to us - LEGAL ACTION (county court judgment) or OUTSOURCE TO EXTERNAL AGENTS (probably Zinc, doesn't give a name)'

 

Any recommendations? You'd think they'd have taken this to court already if they were so confidant in their claims

[dx100uk]

ignore

 

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi Helel,

 

All they do is threaten court action because they know they're likely to fail if they go to court.

 

Ignore again.

 

[Helel]

Just thought I'd update you guys. They've passed my account over to Zinc Group Ltd.. Judging from what I've read in the forums, ignoring them seems the best response.

[dx100uk]

yes