Arrows/Shoos claimform - old M+S Credit Card debt

[victoria_siempre]

Hi AA99

 

Take a look at https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/going-to-court/advice-for-lips/

 

Best wishes

 

Vic xxx

[AA99]

Thank you, I'll take a look.  I am feeling very daunted 

 

[AA99]

On 15/03/2019 at 22:21, victoria_siempre said:

Hi AA99

 

Take a look at https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/going-to-court/advice-for-lips/

Thank you victoria.  I have read and re-read but am getting very anxious now.

 

I have a 101 questions going in my head and wondered if I list some of them below, anybody else could answer them?

 

1.  Will the DJ ask me questions directly?

2.  Do I need to take the whole of the Claimant's bundle with me?

3.  Will a judgement be made against/for me there and then on Monday?

4.  In my defence, do I keep emphasising the Claimant's non-compliance with CPR's?

5.  If I have to, do I, in layman's terms, explain that I had a reduced payment/no interest arrangement with the OC and then suddenly 3 other Debt Collectors pitch up demanding full payment?

6.  This debt is not showing on my Credit Report, should that be a concern?

7.  Do I need to declare my Income & Expenditure, ie, my husband's Pension Credits and other benefits, our only  income?

8.  Should I have received an acknowledgement from the Court that they have received my e-mailed Witness Statement?

 

Thank you! 

[dx100uk]

59 minutes ago, AA99 said:

Thank you victoria.  I have read and re-read but am getting very anxious now.

 

I have a 101 questions going in my head and wondered if I list some of them below, anybody else could answer them?

 

1.  Will the DJ ask me questions directly? yes

2.  Do I need to take the whole of the Claimant's bundle with me? yes

3.  Will a judgement be made against/for me there and then on Monday? possibly

4.  In my defence, do I keep emphasising the Claimant's non-compliance with CPR's? if they have not compiled fully yes

5.  If I have to, do I, in layman's terms, explain that I had a reduced payment/no interest arrangement with the OC and then suddenly 3 other Debt Collectors pitch up demanding full payment? the debt was sold.

6.  This debt is not showing on my Credit Report, should that be a concern? no

7.  Do I need to declare my Income & Expenditure, ie, my husband's Pension Credits and other benefits, our only  income? you could be they cant be part of any decision.

8.  Should I have received an acknowledgement from the Court that they have received my e-mailed Witness Statement? no

 

Thank you! 

 

[AA99]

Thank you 

[victoria_siempre]

Hi again AA99

 

dx has answered your substantive questions.

 

Also have a look at www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZyb4HYC5A8 for an idea of procedure.

 

My advice is to keep it simple. it is for them to prove, not you to disprove. Your points:

1. You have to choose whether to swear on the bible - decide in advance...

3 and 4. Do stress CPR, they are the system's own procedural rules; however, I was asked if I wanted an adjournment because of their flagrant breaches - I chose not to.

2 and 8. Take copies of everything - assume nothing.

5. Lack of proof of title or ownership was crucial in my case and passing the debt around makes ownership questionable. It is for them to prove ownership.

 

Best wishes

 

Vic xxx

[AA99]

I lost! Another example of the law being an ass!  So upset right now 

[Andyorch]

Oh dear was the Judge in a rush and not interested in the CCA1974 ?  If you could expand on the reasons AA so others can benefit from your experience.

 

Chin up

 

Andy

[AA99]

Thanks Andy.  No, no rush, we had a full hour.  She kept harping on about the Notice of Assignment and that all that seemed to matter.  I kept referring back to my WS which she didn't have a copy of (!) so obviously didn't spend her 15 minutes reading both statements.  I kept referring to your Sec 87 Need for Default Notice but twice she said in all probability it was issued!

 

I felt like saying in all probability I'd sent a cheque for the balance then!!!!

 

She did agree with the bombardment of DC's collection letters being confusing.  Commented on Arrow's letter stating they were not the creditor.  I kept using the words Civil Procedures.  I told her the Claimant's rep had approached me twice in the waiting room trying to do a deal and he quickly shouted that was off the record!

[Andyorch]

she said in all probability it was issued! ......ah a probability Judge that works on assumptions.

 

So did they get their claimed amount ?   Costs ?

[AA99]

Yes, full amount, but she knocked off the £105 court fee ?!?!!?! And agreed to Application Fee of £255, Fixed Costs on Judgement £175 and Pursuant to CPR 45.4 Attendance Fee £135.  Total £565

 

28 days to pay all

 

I was given forms N245 and EX160 but they cost £50 to submit to the court!

[AA99]

By the way, the C's rep held up his Iphone and said he had a screenshot from OC not showing the DN, but a listed record that it had been sent and she seemed very happy with that!

The more I think about it, the more I think it was like a circus and I wish I'd had a witness!

[AA99]

Right now, I feel like suing the Deputy DJ!!!! grrrrrrrr

[Andyorch]

4 hours ago, AA99 said:

Yes, full amount, but she knocked off the £105 court fee ?!?!!?! And agreed to Application Fee of £255, Fixed Costs on Judgement £175 and Pursuant to CPR 45.4 Attendance Fee £135.  Total £565

 

28 days to pay all

 

I was given forms N245 and EX160 but they cost £50 to submit to the court! 

 

Do you not qualify for exemption of court fees ?  You really must submit the N245 to get this converted to monthly payment unless you can afford to clear the debt within 28 days otherwise they may take a step further and try to execute the judgment.

[AA99]

Yes, we should qualify for reduced court fees so will send that forthwith.

 

As for the rest of the debt, no, we cannot afford absolutely anything.  We are literally hand to mouth on benefits only.  After today's proceedings, I'm seriously considering a prison sentence or community work.  We have no money and no assets

 

Will the debt collector still consider a repayment scheme? Or is that it now?

 

When the rep approached me in the waiting room, he suggested a Tomlin order, is that still feasible?

 

What will happen if my income minus expenditure equals 0 ????  What would happen then?

 

Can I complain in any way about this DJ's representation of the law?

 

I really don't know which way to turn right now.

[AA99]

2 hours ago, Andyorch said:

otherwise they may take a step further and try to execute the judgment.

 

What does that mean?!

[dx100uk]

 

9 minutes ago, AA99 said:

After today's proceedings, I'm seriously considering a prison sentence or community work

..this is consumer debt..NOT CRIMINAL. in the uk.

 

send in the N245 not your problem you cant afford it...

nothing anyone can do really.....

[Andyorch]

9 hours ago, AA99 said:

Yes, we should qualify for reduced court fees so will send that forthwith. Good

 

As for the rest of the debt, no, we cannot afford absolutely anything.  We are literally hand to mouth on benefits only.  After today's proceedings, I'm seriously considering a prison sentence or community work.  We have no money and no assets   Now your talking silly.....there are no debtors prisons now

 

Will the debt collector still consider a repayment scheme? Or is that it now? Thats what the N245 is for

 

When the rep approached me in the waiting room, he suggested a Tomlin order, is that still feasible? No you can only agree a tomlin order pre hearing

 

What will happen if my income minus expenditure equals 0 ????  What would happen then? You pay a £1 a month

 

Can I complain in any way about this DJ's representation of the law? You could but it would be pointless unfortunately...wrong day wrong judge 

 

I really don't know which way to turn right now. Get the N245 submitted and complete the EX160

 

[AA99]

QUOTE

Once a CCJ has been issued, you must continue with the CCJ payments. Failing to make the payments can lead to a number of enforcements being taken such as the issuing of Bailiffs, a “charge” being placed on your property (Charging Order) or the court can have money deducted straight from your wages (Attachment of Earnings Order).

UNQUOTE

 

I don't own property, I don't have wages, and I don't have any bailiff-takeable assets worth anything.

 

So my questions are:_

 

1.  Should I ignore?

2.  Can I write to the court saying I can't even afford £50 to submit N245?

3.  Can I approach the DCA directly (for free) to arrange £1 p.m.?

 

I sent the N150 in last week but no response yet.

[Andyorch]

N150  

[AA99]

Sorry, wrong number, EX160 I think then, reduction of court fees.......

[AA99]

While we're on numbers, I received today N24 (General Form of Judgement or Order), ordering that, "on balance of probabilities",  the Default Notice dated 2009 had been sent to AA99.

 

I still find this horrendous!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by AA99
layout

[Andyorch]

The good old " balance of probabilities " which is shorthand for  I can't be bothered to check or follow the CCA1974  

[AA99]

Surely this isn't good enough in the eyes of the LAW!!!  The court told me at 11.45 the DJ would read both WS's but during the hearing at 12 she admitted she hadn't seen my WS and took a photocopy of mine off me!  Which also means she hadn't read my/your paragraph regarding how much the DCA had paid for my debt which is the true figure I 'owed' them!

[Andyorch]

The details of assignment are not in question or part of the claim and dont form part of any defence.

 

Andy