MET Parking Charge Notice - Declaration of Driver

[ericsbrother]

it means that they either own or lease the land, if it comes to a clourt claim then you can look up the ownership on the land registry for £3 and if they lease it then the parking co dont have a contract-simples.

[hodgsoi]

Sorry Honeybee 13, hopefully this copy is better. I'm not too good with technology.

 

I've done a Land Registry search and it looks like McDonald's own the land.

What happens now?

Do I have to tell MET who the driver is now?

Land Registry File.pdf

McDonald's.pdf

[dx100uk]

no!!

[ericsbrother]

never tell them who was driving, unless that person is deceased.

 

Now, I

s mcd's real estate a subsidiary of maccyd's or the other way round or are they separate companies?

 

 

Companies house is the place to look that up

[hodgsoi]

It looks to me as if McDonald's is a subsidiary of McDonald's Real estate LLP. Real Estate LLP as registered as Persons With Significant Control over McDonald's Restaurants Ltd.

McDonald's Company House.pdf

McDonald's Company House 1.pdf

[hodgsoi]

Hi there, just received another parking charge notice from MET telling me that the parking charge amount due is now £100. Do I start an appeal to them or is there some way that I can fight this based on McDonald's Real Estate LLP actually owning the land.

[dx100uk]

if this is an additional PCN to the one being discussed here

then yo wait for the notice to keeper

[ericsbrother]

At this point you are not fighting anything so there is no need to respond to MET's demands.

 

As for the company structure there are 2 holding companies for the land and Maccyd's as a separate trading co whose interests are vested in 2 directors who without looking the up I would presume are part of the limited liability partnership.

 

 

By running things this way we cant see what is really going on so impossible to tell if the MET contract is signed off by the right entity but generally one can assume that they can in cases like this.

 

However,

none of this changes any argument about the terms offered at the time nor does it mean that planning consent miraculously appears so i would be sitting tight and then telling them that there is no contractual obligation when they or their lawyers send a lba.

 

 

In the mean while you should get picture of the signage at the entrance to the land,

any signage on the land that is different and an idea of the size of the signs,

their hight above ground and the size of the writing.

 

 

I bet they will fail the legibility test and that is the first thing I would be telling them and keep the no planning argument for the future.

[hodgsoi]

dx100uk, sorry, this is a reminder for the original PCN.

 

Ericsbrother, thanks for the good advice. I'll need to see if I can get a few pics of the signage somewhere - I live in Scotland so it's a little awkward but I'm sure I'll manage something.

Should I make enquiries about planning permission with the local council. I want to try and get my ducks in a row, as it were.

 

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help.

[ericsbrother]

ask the council covering the area,

you need to state that it is an enquiry about planning permission under the advertising hoardings reg of the town and country planning act 2007 so they are clear what you are on about.

 

 

the normaL CUSTOMER SERVICES PEOPLE WONT KNOW AND PROBEBLY TELL YOU THAT IT IS DEEMED CONSENT OR NOT NEEDED FOR PRIVATE LAND BUT THIS IS NOT SO.

[hodgsoi]

Hi there,

I sent off the planning enquiry to Hillingdon Council and got back the standard reply which I've copied below.

 

Generally parking signs on private car parks serving a restaurant or shops etc. do not need advertisement consent if they are giving details of parking restrictions, hours of operation, charges, etc. If they were of excessively large size, we may have to consider them and see if they needed consent.

 

 

If the query relates to terms of parking such as nominated users, fees, penalty charges and whether appropriate signage was displayed, this is not an issue controlled by planning legislation.

 

 

Full planning history including advert applications can be viewed on website, enter site number 45578 in the reference field using the link below -

http://planning.hillingdon.gov.uk/OcellaWeb/planningSearch

 

 

This does not show any planning applications for parking signs so I replied to the council asking specifically for any details under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 as suggested by ericsbrother. I'm still awaiting an update and will pst the reply when I get it.

 

In the meantime, I have obtained some photos of the signage on site. There are two signs approx. 1200 x 800 posted at the entrance to the car park saying that there are parking restrictions in force with a maximum stay of 60 minutes and to see the details on the other signs.

 

In the car park there are 13 signs posted around the car park at approx. 15m intervals. They are 600 x 800 and sit at a height of 2m above ground. Another two signs, 800 x 1200 with the same wording are posted at the exit to the car park and these are approx. 1.2m off the ground.

 

Here's a PDF copy of the sign so that you can read the wording.

McDonald's Parking Sign.pdf

[Oddfellow]

EB, can you comment on the Council's response so we know where we stand?

[hodgsoi]

Oddfellow, I've not received an update from Hillingdon Council as yet. When I do I will post it.

 

Cheers

 

Sorry Oddfellow, misread your post. Thought it was for me.

[Oddfellow]

No probs. Just after general commentary on the legal position.

[ericsbrother]

they are talking out of their backsides,

read the Mansfield thread and you will see the exact quotes of the legislation

and if Hillingdon are right why do other councils including Mansfield and Croydon force PE to obey the same law.

 

 

The problem is you have got a response from some untrained CS wonk who knows nothing.

Anyway the 1200x800 signs need permission regardless of what they say unless they are estate agents for sale signs.

 

As for the contents,

well the main sign is an invitation to treat because it refers to other signs offering the contract.

You are not barred from entering without accepting those unknowm conditions so you are able to reject the contract if you bother to read it.

 

 

Any parking event then becomes a matter of trespass if Maccy D's dont want you there and that is nowt to do with MET.

[hodgsoi]

Ericsbrother, thanks for your assistance once again.

 

Should I wait until I hear from Hillingdon Council to see if they will do anything off their own backs regarding Section 30 of the T & C Planning Act 2007 or should I contact them again to report an offence?

 

What is the position with McDonald's now? Should I contact them as the land owner and ask if they know that there are illegally posted signs in their car park?

[ericsbrother]

you now ignore MET and dont waste any more time on this as you arent going to get a straight answer from anyone.

 

No-one is interested in helping you at the council,

they dont really care about minor planning breaches

because they dotn have the resources to do anything.

 

Maccyd's have a crooked deal with MET but no-one will sue them so they carry on destrpying their customer base and MET dont give a stuff about the law or they would be in another business.

 

You know they dont have PP so that sinks any claim.

They are knackered by the wording of their signage anyway so let them do their worst.

 

Commonly, MET do nothing so unless someone else finds a new winning argument on behalf of parking co's to break the law that is unlikely to change much

[hodgsoi]

Thanks ericsbrother.

 

I'll just sit tight and ignore them then

 

. if they do come back at least I have the ammunition to throw at them.

 

As you say both parties are colluding in an illegal activity so maybe they don't want to push too hard anyway.

 

Many thanks again for your invaluable assistance.

 

It really is much appreciated.

[ericsbrother]

dont ignore a N1 court claim though but expect a load of threatograms in the menawhile.

[hodgsoi]

Thanks ericsbrother. Just had another "Action May Be Taken" threatogram yesterday. I'll just sit tight unless they ramp things up to a court claim as you say.