UKCPM Vanishing windscreen PCN - Residential parking - failure to display permit - southampton

[schrutenberg]

I am a tenant of a residential building and rent a parking place in the garage belonging to the building. Each apartment has one space allocated to it (and tenants rent these for a monthly fee). In autumn 2022 a private company took over parking enforcement, putting up the usual ‘no unauthorised parking’ signs all over the garage (this change to parking rules was made unilaterally).

 

Come December - a speculative invoice for failing to display a permit. While my wife keeps the permit in her car, she was explicitly asked not to attach it to the windscreen by her landlord, as tenants change and the sticker may need to be handed over. In this particular case the permit fell off the dashboard, which makes the charge all the more bitter.

 

A few points to note:

• Parking charge notice was received by mail (no windscreen ticket) though photographic evidence was not from ANPR.
• Conveniently for the company, this letter arrived 16 days after it was dated, immediately pushing the charge up from £50 to £100 and leaving us only 5 days to appeal! (May have been delayed due to RM strikes, but is there a burden on the company to prove this?)
• In a rush to appeal before Christmas, did not have time to read forums and unfortunately identified the driver in the appeal.
• The change to permit parking was made unilaterally, without mutual agreement from the tenants (can we invoke Primacy of Contract?)
• The parking area is gated by a barrier that can only be opened with a fob. Tenants park in their agreed spot (this is unchanged) - they are effectively reserved spaces.
• Received a ‘FINAL CHANCE BEFORE ACTION’ notice on 03/01/23 - probably meaningless, but attached this for completeness.

 

I have been doing quite a bit of reading and opinions seem split between:

• appealing in vague terms;
• appealing in specific terms (though fully aware IAP will likely uphold the charge);
• writing to building management, who will likely reject so they can keep their commission;
• ignoring and hoping it doesn’t get to a court case

Happy to do the latter if we can be fairly certain we have a strong legal position - otherwise would prefer to avoid the headache. Any specific advice would be much appreciated!

 

1 The date of infringement?
December 1st, 2022

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet?
Yes - appeal attached

 

Has there been a response?
Yes - response attached

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]
Yes

What date is on it?
03/12/22 (though received by post on 19/12/22) - this was the only notification (no windscreen ticket)

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?
Yes - see attached PCN  

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]
Yes

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?
[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]
Yes - appeal through IAP.

5 Who is the parking company?
UKCPM

6. Where exactly did you park?
Residential parking Southampton

PCN Summary.pdf

[dx100uk]

you have supremacy of contract.

 

shame you appealed lost your protection under POFA2012

await the letter of claim if/when one comes.

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum. As dx said you shot yourself in the foot by appealing before finding out the Law that applies to the private parking crooks. Had you not appealed UKPCM would have no chance of winning. But it si something that so many people do and it may not be fatal to your case.

 

The contract between you and the land lord is important and may well decide the case. There will also be a contract between UKPCM and the landlord the terms of which  should not override your one with the landlord especially as none of the tenants appear to have had a say in bringing in the crooks or possibly amending the original contract.

 

Does your contract expect you to show you have a permit. Normally in a gated area with key fobs for the tenants this is usually not required.

 

But with the UKPCM infestation they usually introduce permits. Was the permit still visible on the floor of the car do you know?  There is a new Private Parking Code of Practice coming in to force hopefully this year and being in possession of a permit even though not visible is enough to have a claim dropped.

 

At the moment private parking is covered by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which the cowboys who run the private  car parks totally ignore in order to make the maximum amount of money possible. Nothing to do with running a car park efficiently for the benefit of the motorists and land owners.

 

Some residential car parks have a "white list" that the crooks are given so they know whoe the tenants are and so do not issue them with PCNs. Did your landlord do that?

 

You do need to look at your contract and see if you complied with that. If you did you may be able to sue the crooks for trespass should you have supremacy of contract.

 

No point in appealing. The IAS is not neutral and operate a kangaroo style Court where motorists seldom win. UKPCM know they are on sticky ground and while they will persist in sending final demands before passing it over to some unregulated debt collector who will push up the price and send you further final demands they may well stop at actually issuing you with a Court claim.

 

The reason they shouldn't take you to Court is that the odds are not in their favour. However as they are too stupid to learn what final means, they may also be stupid enough to take you t o Court-not just threaten.

 

In the meantime don't worry we will give you advice when you need it so put your credit card in your pocket as noone likes to finance thieves.

 

 

[dx100uk]

Open.

 

Dx

[schrutenberg]

Received the attached letter from a third party, demanding payment of £170. Letter arrived on April 5th but is dated March 22nd, another convenient delay for them.

 

I assume the advice is to ignore(?) but just wanted to keep this thread up to date.

ZZPS letter 1.pdf

[dx100uk]

not a letter of claim

and that would only come from the PPC themselves or a solicitor operating as theirt client, NOT a DCA , whom have ZERO legal powers on any 'debt' - no matter what it's 'type' and of course are not and can never ever be BAILIFFS.

 

dx

 

[schrutenberg]

After the previous post we received 2 further letters from the DCA about 2 weeks apart. A few days ago another letter, this time from solicitors, though still no letter of claim.

Wondering if anyone has an idea of the chances of this being taken to court, and the consequences should that happen - would a CCJ have any impact on credit rating, DBS checks etc.?

[FTMDave]

CAG is a self-help site.  Surely you've been reading similar threads?

Getting a CCJ would certainly knacker your credit file for six years.

But more to the point - how does someone end up with a CCJ?  Answer, if they are taken to court, lose the court case, and then defy the court and still refuse to pay.  CCJs are used to punish people who defy court orders.. 

Caggers have about an 85% record of winning court cases against PPCs.  The remaining 15% cough up when ordered to by the judge and so don't get a CCJ.