multiple dart-charge PCN's - now EA fees - help

[Monkeyblue80]

Hi all,

I apologise in advance for the long-winded post and hope you can bear with me

as I explain my situation as I am confused about what I should do next

and could really do with some advice!

 

I live in the South East and occasionally have cause to use the dartford crossing

which in late 2014 converted the toll system to an online system where you could pay within 24 hours of a crossing.

 

I set up an account in April 2015 for my husband's car which I credited with £10

and authorised to take automatic top-ups as and when needed.

 

We then proceeded to use the crossing several times over the summer when going on weekends away or day trips.

At this point I was also looking after my new baby who, due to reflux and eczema,

was sleeping very poorly and I was becoming quite sleep deprived.

 

I was not on top of my usual filing of post etc and had let it pile up on the windowsill for 'when I have time'.

I know this was foolish but genuinely wasn't expecting anything troublesome in the post!

 

When I finally did open the post I was horrified to see 5 PCN letters from dart charge

and came to the conclusion that there must be some kind of mistake,

in my next foolish move I decided it was best not to mention this to my husband

and that I could surely rectify it easily enough.

 

Well, unfortunately by the time I put in my online appeals

I was sent a letter stating that I was out of time to respond and that the case was going to court.

 

At this point I told my husband what was happening (the car is in his name)

and he was quite content that we would be able to explain the situation at court and it would be fine.

we waited for the witness summons.

 

The next thing we know we are being contacted by an EA who claim there was a court case at the end of June

and they will now be sending bailiffs to collect the debt.

 

My husband contacted them and explained that we were not aware of the court date

and hadn't had a chance to explain that we had tried, in good faith, to pay for the crossings.

 

The EA told him that there was nothing we could do now except pay up, we hoped that this was not true

and so asked for copies of the court orders which we still have not received.

 

Yesterday we received a visit (apparently at 6am although I was awake and heard nothing)

from an EA who posted a letter adding £235 to our costs (over £800 on this one)

 

today a further letter detailing more PCNs on a seperate reference totalling over £500

with a warning that if not paid by tomorrow the EA will visit on this case.

 

My husband is adamant that we should not pay these fines

when we have an account, in credit, with dart charge that should have covered the cost of the crossings.

 

It has transpired that I actually input a 0 instead of an O when creating the account (sleep deprivation again)

and dart charge have (since I created the account) installed software that prevents this type of error

due to so many people making this mistake.

 

I am now confused about what, if anything, we can do next?!

 

My husband is adamant we should not pay

but with three small children I hate the threat of the visits from an EA

and am starting to be tempted to try to pay to remove the pressure,

especially as the costs keep rising.

 

Thank you for reading all the way through this

and thank you in advance for any advice or suggestions you may have.

Edited July 20, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[dx100uk]

sorry you have not had a response

as this is now at the bailiff stage

I have moved you to the bailiff forum.

hopefully the experts will pick this up now and assist..........

 

I totally agree that you have a good case to appeal all of them

and get things reset to no fees or PCN's whatsoever

 

the operators of the toll have since corrected an error they themselves realised was present

in that a capital O could be inputted in a numeric context in place of a zero

and if this had been implemented soon none of this would have happened

 

as you had registered before all the tickets were issued, and had set up a DD too.

 

the best way to progress this is p'haps outside of my knowledge

 

you indicated you found appeal period had ended already

but have you sent in anything to try and appeal.

just so people know what has been attempted.??

 

dx

[Bailiff Advice]

 

I live in the South East and occasionally have cause to use the dartford crossing which in late 2014 converted the toll system to an online system where you could pay within 24 hours of a crossing.

 

I set up an account in April 2015 for my husband's car which I credited with £10 and authorised to take automatic top-ups as and when needed.

 

We then proceeded to use the crossing several times over the summer when going on weekends away or day trips.

 

I was not on top of my usual filing of post etc and had let it pile up on the windowsill for 'when I have time'.

 

When I finally did open the post I was horrified to see 5 PCN letters from dart charge, and came to the conclusion that there must be some kind of mistake,

 

Well, unfortunately by the time I put in my online appeals, I was sent a letter stating that I was out of time to respond and that the case was going to court.

 

It has transpired that I actually input a 0 instead of an O when creating the account (sleep deprivation again) and dart charge have (since I created the account) installed software that prevents this type of error due to so many people making this mistake.

 

Since Highways England started requesting warrants, I have found that almost every other enquiry is a Dart Charge penalty charge notice. .

 

As DX100uk correctly stated yesterday, Highways England have now corrected this software error and it was my understanding, that anyone affected by it had their tickets cancelled. I notice that you put in a late 'appeal' and that this was rejected. In your appeal, did you refer to the software error or was this something that you only recently discovered?

 

In order to resolve this, my personal opinion, is that you have grounds to file Out of Time witness statements with the Traffic Enforcement Centre on the basis that you PAID the charges (which you did by crediting your husband's account with £10).

 

If you file the applications, all bailiff enforcement will go 'on hold' for approx 6 weeks. If the applications are accepted by HE, a new Notice to Owner will be issued allowing you to pay at the discounted rate (or to appeal).

 

You need to be very careful indeed how you complete the forms.

 

If your application is rejected, you will be in the same position as you are today with the warrant becoming 'live' again. You will however be allowed to seek a 'review' of the rejection by way of an N244 application. The problem here is that in March this year, the government increased the fee for such a 'review'. The fee is now up to £255 per penalty charge notice !!!!

[Monkeyblue80]

sorry you have not had a response

as this is now at the bailiff stage

I have moved you to the bailiff forum.

hopefully the experts will pick this up now and assist..........

 

I totally agree that you have a good case to appeal all of them

and get things reset to no fees or PCN's whatsoever

 

the operators of the toll have since corrected an error they themselves realised was present

in that a capital O could be inputted in a numeric context in place of a zero

and if this had been implemented soon none of this would have happened

 

as you had registered before all the tickets were issued, and had set up a DD too.

 

the best way to progress this is p'haps outside of my knowledge

 

you indicated you found appeal period had ended already

but have you sent in anything to try and appeal.

just so people know what has been attempted.??

 

 

dx

 

Thank you for moving this, I wasn't really sure where to put it and had a guess! Sorry I didn't acknowledge your message earlier, when I checked it looked as if I still had no replies until just now. I appreciate the encouragement and look forward to trying to solve this

[Monkeyblue80]

Thank you for your response, you have relieved my worry enormously already.

 

In the appeal to the PCN I did point out that I had an account and created a screenshot of the account which I attached to the appeal,

 

at that point I didn't realise that there was an error in the numberplate so did not explain this, only that the car they were fining had an account in credit.

 

I will now look into filing an Out of Time witness statement as you recommend and will ensure I look into filing it correctly by researching this site,

 

I'm sure the advice is here somewhere although if you have any suggestions of where I should look I would welcome them!

 

I shall also keep my fingers crossed that we don't reach the N244 stage since that sounds like it could end up more expensive than paying the bailiff!!

 

[removed]

 

Thanks again for your replies, feeling much better already!!

Edited July 21, 2016 by dx100uk
reference to external website removed - please read our rules - dx

[Bailiff Advice]

[removed]

 

Another problems with Dart charging, is that unlike the TfL Congestion charge (where a daily charge of £13 is payable), there is a charge of £2.50 for using the Southbound crossing and a separate charge of £2.50 for using the Northbound crossing. Therefore, is you travel from Surrey (for instance) to Essex and back on the same day without paying, you will receive two separate Penalty Charge Notices !!! Each one would need a separate Out of Time witness statement.

 

Any questions, please post back.

Edited July 21, 2016 by dx100uk
reference to external website removed - please read our rules - dx

[Monkeyblue80]

. I really appreciate the help you are providing and the speed with which you reply!

 

I am aware of the seperate PCNs for each individual crossing which is how we have ended up with 6 of them and my next question was whether we needed to file a witness statement for each so thanks for answering that!

 

 

As for the grounds under which to file, they seem very prescriptive, am I to assume you meant we should file under the grounds that the PCN was paid due to the fact that we had paid for the crossings on account and therefore shouldn't have a PCN?

 

Also, and this is jumping ahead a bit but I want to get this done today if possible, shall we inform the EA and/or bailiff when we file the statement or will this be done by the TEC?

 

Thanks again

Edited July 21, 2016 by dx100uk
reference to external website removed - please read our rules - dx

[Coughdrop]

Have you managed to move this forward at all?

[Bailiff Advice]

[removed]

 

Another problems with Dart charging, is that unlike the TfL Congestion charge (where a daily charge of £13 is payable), there is a charge of £2.50 for using the Southbound crossing and a separate charge of £2.50 for using the Northbound crossing.

 

Therefore, if you travel from Surrey (for instance) to Essex and back on the same day without paying, you will receive two separate Penalty Charge Notices !!! Each one would need a separate Out of Time witness statement.

 

Worryingly,I have just received an enquiry this morning where two crossings were made on the same day (ordinary return journey) and only the Southbound crossing case has gone to warrant stage.

 

The vehicle owner spoke with Dart charging yesterday, and it would appear that the Northbound crossing penalty charge notice is still at Order for Recovery stage and will not move to warrant stage for another 10 days or so.

 

This is another area that needs urgently addressing with HE because otherwise, the debtor could find themselves being subjected to bailiff enforcement today, and further bailiff enforcement in two weeks time. Each case could legally attract an enforcement stage fee of £235.

 

 

PS: Since the Dart charge was introduced (in November 2014), over 75 million crossings have been made and over 3 million penalty charge notices issued !!!