Paypal - 'got used as a money mule' - help

[TheLeeds]

Basically, you only owe the money to them if you either,

a) agree that you do, or

b) a court decides that you do.

 

One question to ask yourself might be this.

Who has been scammed here, you, paypal or your bank ?

 

I had a paypal negative balance once. It's not a long story, but it's not a short story either.

 

I sold some genuine Microsoft software on ebay (purchased retail, had receipts etc). I was paid through paypal, and I used a small amount of the sale proceeds to make another ebay purchase. When the buyer received the software, he alleged it wasn't genuine, and as a goodwill gesture, I offered to refund his money if he sent the software back.

The purchaser then filed a dispute, and because of this, paypal froze the remaining funds in my account (remember I'd already spent a small part of this money on something else).

 

The software subsequently arrived back here through the post, so I logged into my paypal account in order to send the purchaser a refund, which I had intended to fund partly though my remaining paypal balance, and secondly through a credit card linked to the account. But because the existing paypal funds were frozen, and those funds were less than the intended refund amount, I was unable to issue the refund at all. This meant the buyer had to wait much longer for his money back, because paypal issued an e-cheque to him, and then eventually paid him out of their own money.

 

When I received my next credit card statement, I noticed a payment to paypal which didn't correspond to any relevant amount. It wasn't the amount the buyer had sent me, or the amount I'd spent on my own ebay purchase, or the difference between the two, and because I didn't recognise the transaction, I rang the credit card company and instructed them to charge the payment back, which they did. I then removed the credit card as a funding source to the paypal account on the basis that I didn't trust paypal to only take amounts which were properly due.

 

About a month later, I got an email from paypal regarding a negative balance, so I asked them to explain how it had arisen. They failed to do so, and they emailed again, stating they'd been trying to contact me by phone. We have a call blocker on the phone which means it only rings if it recognises the caller's number. Paypal is not a bank, and operates in a grey area in between the black and the white, the legally enforceable and the not so legally enforceable. The negative balance was the equivalent of the purchase I'd made, but due to their ineptitude, I didn't bother paying in any money to cover it until about a month later.

[aburobert]

did you get calls from the 0208 number they use for debt collection?

also, how many letters would you say you received from the debt collector and how long ago was all of this?

 

Firstly you should completely ignore Paypal and its agents UNLESS they take court action. This is as unlikely as the Pope becoming Muslim!

 

I received loads of phonecalls from both Paypal and two different debt collectors. If I was bored I would pretend to be someone hard of hearing and string them along - but mostly I simply put the phone down when I knew who they were. To save on those hassles you could invest in a call blocker which will automatically block their calls. Altogether I received around five or six letters from the debt collectors which simply went straight into the recycling bin.

 

All this happened about six months ago and I still get the occasional odd call but have had no more letters.

 

If they were going to take any kind of action against you they would have done so by now. All their attempts to terrify you into paying will continue if you respond to them in any way. The debt collectors may perservere the longest as they will take most of any money you may cough up in commission.

[AmyBabee17]

Basically, you only owe the money to them if you either,

a) agree that you do, or

b) a court decides that you do.

 

One question to ask yourself might be this.

Who has been [problem]med here, you, paypal or your bank ?

 

I had a paypal negative balance once. It's not a long story, but it's not a short story either.

 

I sold some genuine Microsoft software on ebay (purchased retail, had receipts etc). I was paid through paypal, and I used a small amount of the sale proceeds to make another ebay purchase. When the buyer received the software, he alleged it wasn't genuine, and as a goodwill gesture, I offered to refund his money if he sent the software back.

The purchaser then filed a dispute, and because of this, paypal froze the remaining funds in my account (remember I'd already spent a small part of this money on something else).

 

The software subsequently arrived back here through the post, so I logged into my paypal account in order to send the purchaser a refund, which I had intended to fund partly though my remaining paypal balance, and secondly through a credit card linked to the account. But because the existing paypal funds were frozen, and those funds were less than the intended refund amount, I was unable to issue the refund at all. This meant the buyer had to wait much longer for his money back, because paypal issued an e-cheque to him, and then eventually paid him out of their own money.

 

When I received my next credit card statement, I noticed a payment to paypal which didn't correspond to any relevant amount. It wasn't the amount the buyer had sent me, or the amount I'd spent on my own ebay purchase, or the difference between the two, and because I didn't recognise the transaction, I rang the credit card company and instructed them to charge the payment back, which they did. I then removed the credit card as a funding source to the paypal account on the basis that I didn't trust paypal to only take amounts which were properly due.

 

About a month later, I got an email from paypal regarding a negative balance, so I asked them to explain how it had arisen. They failed to do so, and they emailed again, stating they'd been trying to contact me by phone. We have a call blocker on the phone which means it only rings if it recognises the caller's number. Paypal is not a bank, and operates in a grey area in between the black and the white, the legally enforceable and the not so legally enforceable. The negative balance was the equivalent of the purchase I'd made, but due to their ineptitude, I didn't bother paying in any money to cover it until about a month later.

 

Thank you very much for your help! I am definitely the one that has been scammed here so I see where you are coming from. All of the reassurance is making me feel better about my situation and ignoring paypal. Did you end up paying the negative balance in that case and may I ask roughly what the amount was?

[AmyBabee17]

Firstly you should completely ignore Paypal and its agents UNLESS they take court action. This is as unlikely as the Pope becoming Muslim!

 

I received loads of phonecalls from both Paypal and two different debt collectors. If I was bored I would pretend to be someone hard of hearing and string them along - but mostly I simply put the phone down when I knew who they were. To save on those hassles you could invest in a call blocker which will automatically block their calls. Altogether I received around five or six letters from the debt collectors which simply went straight into the recycling bin.

 

All this happened about six months ago and I still get the occasional odd call but have had no more letters.

 

If they were going to take any kind of action against you they would have done so by now. All their attempts to terrify you into paying will continue if you respond to them in any way. The debt collectors may perservere the longest as they will take most of any money you may cough up in commission.

 

Thank you for your help! I have completely ignored paypal so far. All i have received our calls from the debt collection number for paypal and i have not answered a single one. Only found out about the number through Google and then emailed paypal on my new account to find out whether this number was genuine or another person trying to [problem] me. I do have a call blocker on my phone so I will put it on now probably. I didnt originally as I wanted to see how often they would call. Just today already I have had 3 calls. One at 10:15, one at 12:14 and another at 13:14. They seem to be becoming desperate but its surprising how they have not sent any letters to my address and the only way they are contacting me is through phone which is so easy to ignore these days.

 

I'm going to leave it now until I receive any worrying letters coming through the door. However, I am a student so I don't live at my home address all year and I will be returning in september so if i receive any letters at all I won't be here to actually receive them....oh well lol

[aburobert]

Thank you for your help! I have completely ignored paypal so far. All i have received our calls from the debt collection number for paypal and i have not answered a single one. Only found out about the number through Google and then emailed paypal on my new account to find out whether this number was genuine or another person trying to [problem] me. I do have a call blocker on my phone so I will put it on now probably. I didnt originally as I wanted to see how often they would call. Just today already I have had 3 calls. One at 10:15, one at 12:14 and another at 13:14. They seem to be becoming desperate but its surprising how they have not sent any letters to my address and the only way they are contacting me is through phone which is so easy to ignore these days.

 

I'm going to leave it now until I receive any worrying letters coming through the door. However, I am a student so I don't live at my home address all year and I will be returning in september so if i receive any letters at all I won't be here to actually receive them....oh well lol

 

Paypal will not write to you. They will pass the debt onto one or more of the debt collection agents they use. These will both try to phone you and write to you. They are completely toothless and I advise you do not contact them in any way. When they realise they cannot intimidate you they will gradually cease chasing you as they do not want to throw good money after bad.

[Mr.P]

Just today already I have had 3 calls. One at 10:15, one at 12:14 and another at 13:14. They seem to be becoming desperate but its surprising how they have not sent any letters to my address and the only way they are contacting me is through phone which is so easy to ignore these days.

 

Three calls in the space of three hours could be construed as harassment, particularly if the calls cause distress. Perhaps a short letter to them pointing out harassment is a criminal offence and that all further communication must be in writing only (not email). If nothing else, the cost of postage might limit the number of letters they send.

 

That said, if you are content to block their number, then there is little point in poking the hornets nest until (and if) they pass it on to another DCA or use another phone number to call you on.

[AmyBabee17]

Three calls in the space of three hours could be construed as harassment, particularly if the calls cause distress. Perhaps a short letter to them pointing out harassment is a criminal offence and that all further communication must be in writing only (not email). If nothing else, the cost of postage might limit the number of letters they send.

 

That said, if you are content to block their number, then there is little point in poking the hornets nest until (and if) they pass it on to another DCA or use another phone number to call you on.

 

Thank you. I haven't blocked the calls and I probably will just leave them to ring instead of blocking them. Im just going to ignore them until I start receiving stuff that becomes extremely worrying like court letters.

[AmyBabee17]

Paypal will not write to you. They will pass the debt onto one or more of the debt collection agents they use. These will both try to phone you and write to you. They are completely toothless and I advise you do not contact them in any way. When they realise they cannot intimidate you they will gradually cease chasing you as they do not want to throw good money after bad.

 

Thank you. Yes I will not be contacting them at all. If I do they just seem to not listen anyway. From the emails I have sent ages ago before all the calls they completely ignored the fact that I sent them a crime reference number from action fraud.

 

P.S. action fraud got back to me and they couldn't find any significant leads that would enable them to: a) recover the money or b) prosecute the women who did this. Therefore, they have closed the case unless they gain any more information.

[aburobert]

Thank you. I haven't blocked the calls and I probably will just leave them to ring instead of blocking them. Im just going to ignore them until I start receiving stuff that becomes extremely worrying like court letters.

 

You will NOT receive any court papers. If you do you will probably be the first ever that Paypal have tried to take legal action against and what are the chances of that? Ignore and move on with your life.

[gigs]

The account still exists and as long as the account cannot accept funds it will remain in limbo with a substantial minus balance.

 

I will give it a couple of years and if no joy have a good dinner and night out at Paypal's expense!

 

I have a paypal account that's in the minus of around $50 and in limbo for over 7 years. Haven't used ebay since. They won't do anything. It's all about Amazon tbh.

[AmyBabee17]

I have just been issued a letter from a debt collection agency. I'm just checking that you believe I should ignore these letters and eventually they will go away? I'm assuming if I ring up debt collection agency and say I can't pay that I will then technically be agreeing that the debt is mine. also just checking that the debt collection don't just like turn up at your house or anything or is that just high court that do that?

[TheLeeds]

I have just been issued a letter from a debt collection agency. I'm just checking that you believe I should ignore these letters and eventually they will go away? I'm assuming if I ring up debt collection agency and say I can't pay that I will then technically be agreeing that the debt is mine. also just checking that the debt collection don't just like turn up at your house or anything or is that just high court that do that?

If a debt collector turns up at your house, don't let them in. They have no powers of entry unless they have a court order allowing them entry. Best to just not engage them at all. They will get bored and leave. They have better things to do, such as to harass people who might pay them. Don't be one of those people.

If anything arrives through the post which looks like a court summons, read it carefully, to make sure it actually is one. Some debt collectors have been known to fake these with the intention of frightening people into paying. If in doubt, find the phone number on the summons, and if it says it's a court, look it up elsewhere to check whether it's correct or not.

[Mr.P]

.... and do NOT ever phone up a DCA. Always insist on all communication in writing for two reasons:

 

1. It provides a paper trail so that they can not deny what was or wasn't said.
   
2. It costs them extra in postage along with the time and effort of typing up a letter.
   

[Andyorch]

And...

 

3.They wont do number 2. as whatever they commit to paper may be used against them if they dont desist

[dx100uk]

If a debt collector turns up at your house, don't let them in. They have no powers of entry unless they have a court order allowing them entry. Best to just not engage them at all. They will get bored and leave. They have better things to do, such as to harass people who might pay them. Don't be one of those people.

If anything arrives through the post which looks like a court summons, read it carefully, to make sure it actually is one. Some debt collectors have been known to fake these with the intention of frightening people into paying. If in doubt, find the phone number on the summons, and if it says it's a court, look it up elsewhere to check whether it's correct or not.

 

A dca will never have a court order allowing them access

They are not bailiff's

[AmyBabee17]

thank you everyone for your help. I just needed reassurance on what to do. you've all been very helpful