jacobs Sons old CTAX debt - Can enforcement officer remove my goods??

[piggy2001uk]

My son has an outstanding debt of £598 for council tax at a property he lived at with his g/f

and as they have split up and now living back with me in rented accomdation

 

 

Jacobs have sent an enforcement agent who has said he would take assets from the house,

my son has no assets he said he didn't care and I would need receipts to prove what's in the house is mine,

as most of what I own is over 5yrs old I no longer have receipts

and going through a divorce I have the essentials only.

 

 

What can I do

[brassnecked]

My son has an outstanding debt of £598 for council tax at a property he lived at with his g/f and as they have split up and now living back with me in rented accomdation Jacobs have sent an enforcement agent who has said he would take assets from the house, my son has no assets he said he didn't care and I would need receipts to prove what's in the house is mine, as most of what I own is over 5yrs old I no longer have receipts and going through a divorce I have the essentials only. What can I do

Tell them he is a lodger, you could swear a Statutory declaration that all goods except those in his room are yours, Jacobs are notorious third party car snatchers so hide your car for now.

[martin2006]

Your son is therefore your lodger now and i doubt Jacobs could really do much if your son has no assets, do not leave doors or windows open or unlocked as he could walk in and once over the threshold will no doubt try to "Take control of goods".

 

If you have a car, move it, an HCEO will clamp it and you will have to prove that you own it and not your son before it is released.

 

Bailiff Advice should be along soon to advise further.

 

From what you say it will probably passed back to the council tax dept if you can show your son has no means to pay and no assets

[piggy2001uk]

Tell them he is a lodger, you could swear a Statutory declaration that all goods except those in his room are yours, Jacobs are notorious third party car snatchers so hide your car for now.

 

I've already told him he is a lodger my car is on finance so surely he can't touch that, he keeps phoning my number , latest message tells me that failure to comply will result in enforcement of court order and removal of of assets plus £110 fee and storage costs

[Andyorch]

Thread moved to the correct forum,

 

Andy

[martin2006]

I've already told him he is a lodger my car is on finance so surely he can't touch that, he keeps phoning my number

 

On finance or otherwise, they will snatch first, you prove later, for the sake of not having that hassle, move the car.

[piggy2001uk]

Thread moved to the correct forum,

 

Andy

 

Which forum have you moved this too please

[piggy2001uk]

On finance or otherwise, they will snatch first, you prove later, for the sake of not having that hassle, move the car.

 

My car is not parked on a drive or near the house so if they do a check they will know it's registered to me or don't they do things like that

[renegadeimp]

Cant force entry on council tax debts. Dont belive his lies. He can charge your son the statutory charges, but cant force your way in. IIRC he also cant come through an open window now. It has to be peaceful entry through an unlocked or open door.

[piggy2001uk]

Cant force entry on council tax debts. Dont belive his lies. He can charge your son the statutory charges, but cant force your way in. IIRC he also cant come through an open window now. It has to be peaceful entry through an unlocked or open door.

 

My son lost his job has since got a new one but doesn't get paid until the end of this month, he had already agreed a payment plan but obviously though job loss he couldn't keep it up and I know from this guys attitude he won't accept a payment plan and my son won't be able to pay in full as he has a child to pay for so where do we go from here, we are both out all day everyday and house is definitely locked up

[Bailiff Advice]

My son has an outstanding debt of £598 for council tax at a property he lived at with his g/f

and as they have split up and now living back with me in rented accomdation

 

 

Jacobs have sent an enforcement agent who has said he would take assets from the house, my son has no assets he said he didn't care and I would need receipts to prove what's in the house is mine, as most of what I own is over 5yrs old I no longer have receipts and going through a divorce I have the essentials only.

 

What can I do

 

 

When your son was living at the previous property, were the couple together up until the time of moving out? The reason for asking, is that if only one person had been living at the property it may be useful to speak with the council to explore the possibility of having the council tax bill adjusted by applying a 'Single Person discount.

 

Does he have a car that can be seized by the bailiff?

[piggy2001uk]

When your son was living at the previous property, were the couple together up until the time of moving out? The reason for asking, is that if only one person had been living at the property it may be useful to speak with the council to explore the possibility of having the council tax bill adjusted by applying a 'Single Person discount.

 

Does he have a car that can be seized by the bailiff?

 

No they were together until they moved nearer to family and no he doesn't have a car

[Bailiff Advice]

No they were together until they moved nearer to family and no he doesn't have a car

 

As you son does not own a car then unless you allow the bailiff entry into YOUR home (not to be advised) then frankly, the bailiff has just two choices. Either he has to accept a payment arrangement offered by your son or his second choice, is to return the debt back to the council. He is far better taking choice number one.

 

I may be mistaken here but from a great deal of experience I would suspect that the position is not being resolved because YOU are speaking with the enforcement agent and he very likely thinks that if he can convince you that you are at risk of having YOUR goods removed (because you do not have receipts for when you purchased the items) that you will eventually pay the debt on your son's behalf.

 

What sort of payment arrangement would suit your son?

[piggy2001uk]

As you son does not own a car then unless you allow the bailiff entry into YOUR home (not to be advised) then frankly, the bailiff has just two choices. Either he has to accept a payment arrangement offered by your son or his second choice, is to return the debt back to the council. He is far better taking choice number one.

 

I may be mistaken here but from a great deal of experience I would suspect that the position is not being resolved because YOU are speaking with the enforcement agent and he very likely thinks that if he can convince you that you are at risk of having YOUR goods removed (because you do not have receipts for when you purchased the items) that you will eventually pay the debt on your son's behalf.

 

What sort of payment arrangement would suit your son?

 

He's got no chance of getting into my house and I don't talk to him I listen to the messages and read the texts I don't respond, until he knows what his monthly pay is going to be it would have to be a monthly payment

[unclebulgaria67]

So your Son works out what he can afford per month and sends a letter to the council and enforcement company with an offer of payment. In the letter he provides basic details of income and expenses, plus his current circumstances. Wait for a response.

[renegadeimp]

While your son is deciding what hes doing, i would be getting that stat dec done so the bailiff cant do anything to you or even threaten you. If he does, he'll be in a lot of bother.

[piggy2001uk]

While your son is deciding what hes doing, i would be getting that stat dec done so the bailiff cant do anything to you or even threaten you. If he does, he'll be in a lot of bother.

 

Where will I find a statutory declaration

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?165753-MAGISTRATE-COURT-FINES.-Template-of-a-Statutory-Declaration.

[brassnecked]

You can swear one at a solicitors or a local court. costs around a tenner.

 

He cannot Take Control of your goods for your sons debt nor force entry, I agree with BA that the bailiff is threatening to take your goods to pressure you into paying the debt.

[Conniff]

You son/lodger mustn't over offer, only what he can afford after he has paid his rent and share of the utility bills plus living expenses.

[Leakie]

As you son does not own a car then unless you allow the bailiff entry into YOUR home (not to be advised) then frankly, the bailiff has just two choices. Either he has to accept a payment arrangement offered by your son or his second choice, is to return the debt back to the council. He is far better taking choice number one..

 

Hi BA

why would he go for choice 1, when if it was returned to the council, the EA fees would go,

 

Ok it may take longer but choice 2 the debt would be paid off quicker too the council, which is the ultimate aim.

 

I may be wrong but I can not see the benefit, for the OP to pay £310.00 more,

 

if the stat demand is done and the debtor has no assets.

[Bailiff Advice]

While your son is deciding what hes doing, i would be getting that stat dec done so the bailiff cant do anything to you or even threaten you. If he does, he'll be in a lot of bother.

 

At the risk of being shot down in flames, it is sadly the case, that providing a Statutory Declaration is very rarely of use. Unfortunately the reason for this is because of the high number of websites that are charging fees of upward of £150 for drafting of these forms. Very often, debtors are misled into believing that sending a statutory declaration to an enforcement company will lead to the debt being returned back to the council or court. This is simply not true and worryingly, I am getting frequent enquiries from people who have paid such fees only to find that the enforcement agent has continued with enforcement.

 

If a bailiff is enforcing a Liability Order for arrears of council tax then the following is true:

 

Bailiffs only remove goods from inside of a property in less than 0.5% of cases.

 

With the introduction of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, more household items are now 'exempt' from being seized (see link below).

 

Under the above regulations, an enforcement agent is now only allowed to take control of goods if they actually

belong

to the debtor.

 

 

PS: A list of items that are considered 'exempt' (from being taken into control) can be read here:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/part/1/crossheading/exempt-goods/made?view=plain

[brassnecked]

BA Jacobs are probably facey enough to actually take the third party goods into control sell them and ask questions later remember the VW camper debacle? At least with a Stat Dec stating only goods of debtor are in their room might help if they did take the third party car that is on finance.

[Bailiff Advice]

BA Jacobs are probably facey enough to actually take the third party goods into control sell them and ask questions later remember the VW camper debacle? At least with a Stat Dec stating only goods of debtor are in their room might help if they did take the third party car that is on finance.

 

Good point BN.

 

I remember the VW camper case very well !!! Thankfully with enforcement agents now no longer permitted to remove goods from somebody else's property we should hopefully not see a repeat of what happened in that case!!

 

If 'third party' goods are taken then the procedure for challenging the seizure is very well established under Part 85 of the Civil Procedure Rules and this does not prescribe a Statutory Declaration.

 

In the particular case being discussed, I do not believe that there is any need for anything more than a letter to outline a payment proposal. In the letter the son needs to mention that he has recently moved back to live with his mother and that naturally with the exception of personal items, he does not own any goods in his mothers house. He should of course also mention that he does not own a motor vehicle.

 

I should of course also add that if he wishes, he can refuse to pay and ignore the enforcement agent. Eventually, the account may well be returned back to the council. This could take one month or even three months. That is not to say that the enforcement agent cannot continue visiting or contacting the debtor. The son has a choice to make. Either enter into a payment proposal (ensuring that it is affordable) or ignore the enforcement agent. It is his choice. We can only guide them.

[piggy2001uk]

My son did enter into a payment plan then lost his job as I said

he does now have a job and will be paid monthly instead of weekly,

 

 

because this payment plan has fallen through and the enforcement agents attitude we can guess he won't accept,

he couldn't care less when I was on nights as he said he would keep knocking.

 

 

At the moment neither of us are in much

I work shifts and son does 12 hour days 5 days a week.

 

 

if he has been no-one is in.

If it goes back to the council it can be added to my bill

and my son will pay me back that's the only solution I can come up with