Property law - can anyone help with satellite dishes and trespass?

[obiter dictum]

Trespass is a civil matter (generally; there are some criminal offences, but for areas such as railways).

 

Civil disputes are handled in the Civil Court.

 

Your threat, should you decide to apply it, is to apply to the Court for injunctive relief with monetary damages. (Solicitors costs etc)

 

HOWEVER (and it's a big 'however') is that the cost to you would likely exceed the benefit.

 

My recommended order of approach is: a word; then a formal letter; then the expense of a solicitor; before embarking on potentially expensive court action.

 

But what ever you decide always seek independent legal advice first

Edited November 8, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Surfer01]

How likely is that to happen???

The inner core is surrounded by a plastic sleeve of 4mm and the outer is a flimsy mesh.

Safe to cut, touch and disconnect.

If you want to be 100% covered you could disconnect the inner core, tape over it and then disconnect the rest, but that's overkill imo

 

When they cut the cable normally a metal cutters would be used and when cutting the outer braiding and the inner core could make contact via the metal of the cutters. Slim chance of it happening, but why give the neighbours an excuse to claim a new Sky Digibox? In addition, you could be held liable to damage to the cable hence the suggestion to get a "professional" from Sky to do the dirty work.

[BankFodder]

Yes. You must exercise utmost diligence.

Get a professional

[andydd]

Have I missed something ?, a lot of posts talk about removing the dish, I dont see that the OP has the right to do this and even if he did there appears to me to be a real risk of criminal damage etc

 

Is the property Leasehold or Freehold ?

[cookie_monster]

Yes. You must exercise utmost diligence.

Get a professional

 

I just had one more thought about this.

 

What do you think would be the implications if I didn't detach the cables from the dish at all? I could remove the dish from the wall but wouldn't actually need to remove the cable. There is approx 4m of cable rising from the entry/exit point in the wall up to the dish. This length of cable would be easily long enough to reach over to my neighbours front garden - 1m away from the location of the dish. The cabling exits the wall at around 40cm from ground level so it would be easy to just place it on his property. Wouldn't it then be up to our neighbour to detach the dish from the cable? Or am I missing something.

 

Is it sufficient to place the dish on my neighbour's property (obviously ensuring they are in at the time so can take possession of it immediately without fear of it being stolen) or do I really need to go the whole hog, detach from the cable and package it all up nicely?

[BankFodder]

It sounds as if you are trying to avoid expense and to short cut your way through this.

I think you are asking for trouble.

If you break something then you will be accused and you may even be held liable.

 

Also, if you act in a direct way like this, you will increase the testosterone factor and it is more likely to become a personal issue between you.

 

You have told us that you have stood by and done nothing for 8 years because you wanted to remain Mr Reasonable guy. Now you want to step in and get your hands dirty.

 

I think that now is the time to distance yourself. Write letters. Get professionals to do the work. Protect yourself from criticism and accidents.

Show that the whole dispute has finally become very formal and that you are prepared to put it beyond doubt and spend money on it.

 

It's up to you but I think you have received all the advice we can give here. You now have to make up your own mind.

 

 

There is nothing else we can do for you.

[cookie_monster]

It sounds as if you are trying to avoid expense and to short cut your way through this.

I think you are asking for trouble.

If you break something then you will be accused and you may even be held liable.

 

Also, if you act in a direct way like this, you will increase the testosterone factor and it is more likely to become a personal issue between you.

 

You have told us that you have stood by and done nothing for 8 years because you wanted to remain Mr Reasonable guy. Now you want to step in and get your hands dirty.

 

I think that now is the time to distance yourself. Write letters. Get professionals to do the work. Protect yourself from criticism and accidents.

Show that the whole dispute has finally become very formal and that you are prepared to put it beyond doubt and spend money on it.

 

It's up to you but I think you have received all the advice we can give here. You now have to make up your own mind.

 

 

There is nothing else we can do for you.

 

I was just exploring options. And I didn't intend to complete the work myself.

 

Thanks again.

[BankFodder]

Please keep us updated.

Ta

[king12345]

I wouldn't give the dish to the neighbour.

It belongs to sky and they are the rightful owners.

Your neighbour might damage it and then blame you.

Course of action as advised should be:

1. Write to sky and let them know that in 30 days the dish will be removed if they don't remove it themselves.

2. If no positive response from sky get a professional to remove the dish, video the all event and keep the professional receipt.

3. Pack the dish safely and keep it yourself

4. Write to sky again and let them know that if they don't collect their dish within 30 days you will dispose of it.

5. Do not give the dish to your neighbour unless sky authorises you to do so in writing.

 

This way nobody will be able to blame you of having been unreasonable with timing and actions and accuse you of damage.

[Surfer01]

I wouldn't give the dish to the neighbour.

It belongs to sky and they are the rightful owners.

Your neighbour might damage it and then blame you.

Course of action as advised should be:

1. Write to sky and let them know that in 30 days the dish will be removed if they don't remove it themselves.

2. If no positive response from sky get a professional to remove the dish, video the all event and keep the professional receipt.

3. Pack the dish safely and keep it yourself

4. Write to sky again and let them know that if they don't collect their dish within 30 days you will dispose of it.

5. Do not give the dish to your neighbour unless sky authorises you to do so in writing.

 

This way nobody will be able to blame you of having been unreasonable with timing and actions and accuse you of damage.

 

Our dish belongs to us and not to Sky and I would guess that this may be the case with many dishes as we have had the dish a number of years. You cannot keep the dish as that is theft and can cause many more issues as the neighbours are paying to watch Sky so could claim compensation. You woudl have no legal right to dispose of the satellite dish unless you had a court order. If the OP makes the mistake of keeping the dish and the neoghbour asks for the dish, the OP has to hand it over. Why get a professional in who is going to charge you to remove the dish and in addition probably would not remove a dish from an adjoining home as I am sure thay do not want to be involved in a litigation issue between neighbours.

[obiter dictum]

I am going to say it as i am not saying it is correct, just an educated opinion, and that i am entitled to that opinion

 

To entice an individual to partake in an act that has the possibliliy to land that individual in trouble with the authorities ( Inchoate Conspiracy) is simply wrong. It is alright people saying do this and that but i have yet to see any objective source of reference saying such action is lawful.

 

This is my take on it

 

By interfering with property belonging to another without prior consent leaves the OP liable to be prosecuted under Section 1(1) Criminal Atempts Act 1981. That is doing an act that is more than preparatory.

 

Getting and engaging the services of a satellite engineer to remove the dish as an example

 

Then we have unlawful Conversion

 

The Neighbour has legal ownership or rights to the dish, in removing the dish depriving the neighbour of those rights, and by removing the dish damages have been sustained. That is either tangiable or intangiable as the act of removing the dish was deliberate

 

As i have said before trespass is a civil matter and is to be decided in the private court. An application to the court is made for injunctive relief under:

 

The Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977

"A person detains goods without lawful reason or who borrows goods in the absence of authority of the person with title to the goods may be liable"

 

By all means shoot my reasoning down in flames. but do it with referenced facts, not argument or opinions to give persuasion to any statement such as i have done

Edited November 10, 2015 by obiter dictum

[king12345]

Our dish belongs to us and not to Sky and I would guess that this may be the case with many dishes as we have had the dish a number of years. You cannot keep the dish as that is theft and can cause many more issues as the neighbours are paying to watch Sky so could claim compensation. You woudl have no legal right to dispose of the satellite dish unless you had a court order. If the OP makes the mistake of keeping the dish and the neoghbour asks for the dish, the OP has to hand it over. Why get a professional in who is going to charge you to remove the dish and in addition probably would not remove a dish from an adjoining home as I am sure thay do not want to be involved in a litigation issue between neighbours.

 

This has already being discussed.

The op needs to keep the dish temporarily for safe keeping until the rightful owner collects it or gives up ownership.

Theft is subject to 'permanently' deprive someone of their possession and the op will not do that.

Despite you having been left a dish by sky, until you leave them they remain the rightful owners of all equipment, it's in their t&c.

After you terminate the contract they let you keep the dish because it would cost them to have it removed and in any case new customers get a new dish so it would be of no use to them.

As bankfodder rightly pointed out, if the dish is removed by a professional, there will be no chance that they could claim that the dish was damaged during removal.

[obiter dictum]

King12345 with all due respect

 

You keep on making these statements as "Fact"

 

Where is your authority?

 

Be kind enough to reference those "Facts" such as i have

Edited November 10, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Mr.P]

What do you think would be the implications [...] I could remove the dish from the wall but wouldn't actually need to remove the cable. [...]. The cabling exits the wall at around 40cm from ground level so it would be easy to just place it [the dish] on his property.

 

Before you go down the route of removing (or contracting someone else) the dish, you need to consult a solicitor experiences in property law. As BankFodder has recommended on several occasions, you need to start laying down a paper trail before removing the dish.

 

To remove the dish without verifying your legal position and no paper trail in place leaves you open to criminal prosecution (in my opinion). If you have legal expenses cover on your household insurance, it would be wise to take advantage of it. You may also find that your union (if you are in one at work) will be able to offer free legal advice.

[Ganymede]

I wouldn't give the dish to the neighbour.

It belongs to sky and they are the rightful owners.

Your neighbour might damage it and then blame you.

Course of action as advised should be:

1. Write to sky and let them know that in 30 days the dish will be removed if they don't remove it themselves.

2. If no positive response from sky get a professional to remove the dish, video the all event and keep the professional receipt.

3. Pack the dish safely and keep it yourself

4. Write to sky again and let them know that if they don't collect their dish within 30 days you will dispose of it.

5. Do not give the dish to your neighbour unless sky authorises you to do so in writing.

 

This way nobody will be able to blame you of having been unreasonable with timing and actions and accuse you of damage.

 

 

How do you know this? What are you basing your assumption on?

[caledfwlch]

If it is lawful to remove, ie physically cut and sever overhanging tree branches as long as you returm them to the owner, surely removing a dish that is on the OP's property would not class as criminal damage either.

 

To look at it a slightly different way, the Dish is taking up the OP's personal property space - what if he wanted to make use of his space and fit something, such as a garage, but the dish is blocking the way?

 

I lived in a back to back house, where the normal place a dish would be placed is facing opposite the satalites, so the Engineer simply mounted the dish on a Pole, no reason why that can't be done for the neighbour, rather than using up the OP's space.

 

Since it is using his space and land, it surely wouldn't be unreasonable to demand Rent?

[caledfwlch]

How do you know this? What are you basing your assumption on?

 

Sky own all equipment, both the digibox, and the Dish, if they supplied them.

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/142/~/who-owns-the-sky-equipment%3F

 

SKY owns all SKY gear from the dish to the indoor equipment (SKY Box, SKY card, SKY remote control, SKY cables, connectivity devices, etc).

 

If the gear is faulty our Crew will fix or replace it.

 

The same way that if you get a free router with your internet connection, the ISP will claim ownership of the Router, or for example your bank maintains ownership of "your" Debit Card.

[obiter dictum]

As far as i am aware the Sky equipment is provided to the subscriber on lease the same as a mobile phone contract

 

You pay off charges over the life of the contract

 

That is what they said to me and my dish was put up only last month

 

The Equipment from the start of the contract belongs to the subscriber. If the subscriber cancells the contrat within the term sky simply invoice for the cost of said equipment

 

That link given for the post above is for Sky in Wellington, New Zealand

 

Freepost 2921

SKY Television

PO Box 9059

Newmarket

Auckland 1149

 

Whoops

 

That is why i always go on as to a credible reference source, and not search engines

Edited November 10, 2015 by obiter dictum

[BankFodder]

If it is lawful to remove, ie physically cut and sever overhanging tree branches as long as you returm them to the owner, surely removing a dish that is on the OP's property would not class as criminal damage either.

 

To look at it a slightly different way, the Dish is taking up the OP's personal property space - what if he wanted to make use of his space and fit something, such as a garage, but the dish is blocking the way?

 

I lived in a back to back house, where the normal place a dish would be placed is facing opposite the satalites, so the Engineer simply mounted the dish on a Pole, no reason why that can't be done for the neighbour, rather than using up the OP's space.

 

Since it is using his space and land, it surely wouldn't be unreasonable to demand Rent?

This is correct.

However it will be much better to get it taken down professionally and without damage.

If the police are called then much better not to present them with any kind of dilemma. Then they will be on your side.

 

Give it all back to the neighbour. It is his responsibility regardless of ownership. Just get shot of it having made sure that the whole episode is videoed .

 

 

The inertia of the property owner her e has made it more complicated.

Once it is removed and returned, he is back to zero.

[caledfwlch]

Equally, nothing stops the OP from putting up something that oops, blocks the reception of the dish, such as a thick lead panel nailed in front.

 

I could kind of see the neighbours point of view when he first moved in, but as he clearly has had Sky in to fit new equipment, then knowing the OP is unhappy, he could have gotten the engineer to resite the new dish.

 

I would also suggest pointing out to Sky, that the Neighbour cannot grant Sky permission to enter the OP's property, that privilege rests with the OP! So Sky themselves are still committing Tresspass, since nobody who can give permission has done so.

 

If Sky suffered a financial penalty for it, then I imagine they might have recourse against the neighbour, but that does not absolve them of their own responsibilties, they can't point at the neighbour and say a big boy did it, and ran away. Whilst a Client has vicarious responsibility for the actions of a contractor, that does not absolve the contractor, or let them go home free - the same way that a Local Authority for example is vicariously responsible for the actions of a Bailiff collecting Council Tax, but that does not mean a victim of Bailiff naughtyness can only take the action against the Council, the Bailiff firm cannot point at the Council and say sorry guv, go see them, a victim would have recourse seperately and individually against the council and the bailiff firm, and so the OP has courses of action re tresspass against the neighbour AND Sky, it would be up to sky afterwards to attempt redress for any losses with the neighbour.

 

It's why I am surprised they refused to even take a complaint, unless they are hoping to avoid responsibility by denying they were ever even contacted, in which case I suggest the OP telephones Sky again, removing unequivocally their consent to enter the property, and record the conversation, and then follow up with a letter explaining the same.

 

As far as I know, this is still perfectly legal for all issues, it is only not useable against anyone with a valid court warrant such as Bailiffs, and I would suggest the OP Sends it to Sky.

 

This Notice Applies to Sky, and all any any Agents, Employees and Contractors working for an on behalf of Sky: All rights of Access implied or otherwise, to the above residency are both revoked and Access is absolutely Denied Any subsequent visits to this address will be considered trespass.

[king12345]

Sky own all equipment, both the digibox, and the Dish, if they supplied them.

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/142/~/who-owns-the-sky-equipment%3F

 

SKY owns all SKY gear from the dish to the indoor equipment (SKY Box, SKY card, SKY remote control, SKY cables, connectivity devices, etc).

 

If the gear is faulty our Crew will fix or replace it.

 

The same way that if you get a free router with your internet connection, the ISP will claim ownership of the Router, or for example your bank maintains ownership of "your" Debit Card.

 

Thank you!

[obiter dictum]

Thank you! ��

 

 

That has already been proven to be in error

Post 68

 

Well it is not if you happen to live in New Zealand

[cookie_monster]

Thanks again everyone for your fantastic responses.

 

There are lots of points to explore and I have an appointment to get some specialist legal advice tomorrow to confirm exactly how the ground lies.

 

I am hoping they will confirm there is mileage in raising this with Sky who behave very irresponsibly leaving disputes behind them.

 

Will keep you posted.

[Ganymede]

Sky own all equipment, both the digibox, and the Dish, if they supplied them.

https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/142/~/who-owns-the-sky-equipment%3F

 

SKY owns all SKY gear from the dish to the indoor equipment (SKY Box, SKY card, SKY remote control, SKY cables, connectivity devices, etc).

 

If the gear is faulty our Crew will fix or replace it.

 

The same way that if you get a free router with your internet connection, the ISP will claim ownership of the Router, or for example your bank maintains ownership of "your" Debit Card.

 

Erm, unless the OP lives New Zealand that link of yours is useless...

[Ganymede]

Thank you!

 

 

You should disregard everything you've read in that link.

 

It relates to a different company in a different country and is not the same as in England.