China..

[silverfox1961]

Business rates

 

Energy Prices

 

Why is it only the UK that has the highest energy and business rates out of the whole of Europe??

 

Why is Osbourn doing trade Deals with China to import ready made steel at the expense of our own domestic steel industry?

 

While I cannot comment on Business rates or Chinas involvement in Steel, I do feel your comment on energy prices is misplaced.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Energy_price_statistics

 

While this report is about a year old, prices haven't moved much and it shows that UK energy prices do not match your comment.

[obiter dictum]

The wholesale price of natural Gas has been liberalised within member states

 

The problems arise as to when that commodity is then sold to the end consumer

 

British Gas as an example have three seperate trading companies before that gas reaches the end consumer.

 

Basically selling that gas onto each different trading company at a profit so that wholesale price of gas has increased Astronomically before it reaches that end consumer

 

One of the contractual elements of privatisation is if a privatised company fails to make a profit, the tax payer picks up the tab with a 10% mark up for profit

Edited October 20, 2015 by obiter dictum

[tobyjugg2]

As for the steel, I'll ask again something that no one seem willing to answer - what do you want the government to do ??

 

Not even as much as the chinese have done in supporting their steel industry to create what will be a temporary glut of cheap steel on the world market which can be used to ruin other countries steel production while boosting chinas economy - well those other countries with stupid governments who can't see past their next commission payment anyway.

 

China can always boost the price for future captive markets and make even more profit.

[Conniff]

Business rates

 

Energy Prices

 

Why is it only the UK that has the highest energy and business rates out of the whole of Europe??

 

Why is Osbourn doing trade Deals with China to import ready made steel at the expense of our own domestic steel industry?

 

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think China is a part of Europe so I don't see what that has to do with it.

[obiter dictum]

Well it is the UK that sets its own Business rates and the price of domestic energy costs to the end consumer

 

But i have to ask

 

What has China got to do with that is beyond me

[bd1972]

The goverment can assist and help save the industry. Like they did with the banks and dont fortget the banking issue was caused by the banks. As for the steel they can stop cheap dumping by taxing heavily all cheap imports like the americans did laat year. They could put us into temporary public ownership to be sold at a later date. Or something easier and subsidise the energy cost for large users which currently the uk cost for energy is amongst the highest in the world. Most of our european neighbour's have cheaper energgy which puts us at an unfair disadvantage. Even our company is trebling its capacity in india and the netherlandswhilst cutting back in the uk. They are openly blaming high energy prices and green tAxes.

[Conniff]

China has asked that it design, build and run a nuclear generating plant in the UK but I can't see them being given carte blanche to do that without UK safety standards being met.

[obiter dictum]

The issue of cheap steel being dumped on the EU ended last year with the introduction of Quantitative restrictions (customs duties).

 

That does not stop the dumping on world markets though.

 

Not to mention a member state can still do its own deal with China or world markets as nothing is stopping that, as long as the required duty is paid on any imports into the EU.

Edited October 20, 2015 by obiter dictum

[bd1972]

On the news now we have announced 1200 losses. And the company is also reviewing other plants with cost saving in mind. It will end steelmaking in Scotland. This is the tip of the iceberg. The 1200 announced could possibly treble with all the jobs linked downstream with the outside conpanies that supply the steelwoeks. It looks like this once great country will become a non manufacturing country and instead will be a nation where we all will work in the service industry. For a third of the wage we currently earn.

[Conniff]

This all stems from the desire to make a profit and the selling of 'our' assets to foreigners. The job losses today are by TATA who is Indian and obviously not going to put the UK plant above the home plants.

 

I've no bones about privatisation, but I'm not at all in favour of them being sold to foreigners.

[unclebulgaria67]

This all stems from the desire to make a profit and the selling of 'our' assets to foreigners. The job losses today are by TATA who is Indian and obviously not going to put the UK plant above the home plants.

 

I've no bones about privatisation, but I'm not at all in favour of them being sold to foreigners.

 

Well, UK has been a very open market for a long time. Blair continued what Thatcher started, so Labour cannot really moan too much. They won three elections so had plenty of chance to implement laws protecting British industrial interests. The French and Germans have always managed to find ways to help maintain their industries by making it difficult for foreign companies.

[tobyjugg2]

I think the BIG issue is that our governments quite rightly require our industries to make steel in a way that doesn't poison the rivers and atmosphere, with all the extra costs that entails,

... BUT THEN buy steel from countries who poison the world in making theirs cheaper than ours.

 

The poison may be poured into the rivers, seas and atmosphere on the other side of the planet, but the mercury and other poisons poured into the rivers, seas and atmosphere are killing the world for everyone even as they destroy our national industries and pride with the products.

[obiter dictum]

Let us look at the facts shall we to the demise of the UK steel industry

 

British steel as a natonalised industry was Privatised in 1988

It immediately went into the FTSE top 100 companies

It was taken over/merged by the dutch firm Corus in 1999.

After being asset stripped it was then sold/taken over by Tata in 2007

[obiter dictum]

It does seem ironic Osborne is begging the Chinese to build HS2

 

No doubt with Chinese steel as well

 

Just going back to that French/Chinese new nuclear plant at Flamanville .... some of the reinforced concrete .... erm ..... wasn't.

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b8741dd0-1048-11e5-bd70-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3p7GZGf2k

 

 

The Chinese have had to put $1.5 Trillion into their stock market to prop it up in just 2 months. This is $500 billion MORE than the EU has had to put into its economy over 7 years ....

 

Osborne is connecting us to China when everyone else is pulling out.

Edited October 20, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Conniff]

The Chinese run HST successfully do they not ?

 

I don't think 'begging' is the correct word. He isn't begging anyone to do anything.

[obiter dictum]

Well he is certainly doing at the expense of the UK own domestic work force with his trade deals

Edited October 20, 2015 by obiter dictum

[obiter dictum]

Cameron, Slag, and Pig Iron come to mind

 

But, according to Gidion and the (Comment removed as it is potential Liable - SS) , our economy is 'the envy of the world'.

 

Within a week these people made unemployed will be labelled as skivers, not strivers

 

One of the reason for closure of the steel plants is high energy costs

 

Yet Osborne has done a deal with our nuclear industry and the Chinese/EDF to charge the domestic consumer double the KW it takes to create it, putting more high energy users/ employers out of business

 

Another triumph for Osbornes Northern Powerhouse.

 

I thought Osborne wanted to 'rebalance' the British Ecomony towards industry. Obviously that was the Banking industry he meant.

Edited October 20, 2015 by obiter dictum

[unclebulgaria67]

I note from some Tories that they are not comfortable with the amount of investment the government are encouraging from China. There is a huge market in luxury goods being sold to the Chinese market, but they have made it very difficult for exporters. Not sure why we are being so helpful, unless British companies will be given better access terms to Chinese market.

[obiter dictum]

The Chinese can do this as all their industries are subserdised on massive proportions.

To an extent producing at a loss

 

It is all that American Debt they purchased that is allowing them to do this

Edited October 20, 2015 by obiter dictum

[determindator]

There is nothing mentioned about the safety of the reactors or generators themselves.

 

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

BTW the point being tested was the Chinese compromise on safety to make production cheaper. A quote in this article says 'Nuclear energy costs are cheap because we lower our standards'

 

Here's a read which may answer the question in more detail

 

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-A-F/China--Nuclear-Power/

 

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

As for the steel, I'll ask again something that no one seem willing to answer - what do you want the government to do ??

 

My answer was leave it to the experts. Read that as you wish

[Conniff]

Nice one, they have done the deal and China will invest in our nuclear power generation and other things. Lets get the money in.

[Tawnyowl]

I suppose Conniff

What help people and the Steel industry want from the Government is-

 

Help with high energy prices

Back EU action on anti-dumping/unfair imports

Reform business rates

Fair implementation of regulations

Support local content in major construction projects.

 

Now i believe in Germany the Steel Plant is directly linked to or some are linked to the assembly plant where the goods are manufactured.

Giving no chance for the Chinese cheaper steel to appear.

Maybe slightly against some rules but personally i do not care.

I just want the British Steel workers to be given a even playing field.That is all.

Fair competition is one thing but subsidised steel from China and other products seem to be costing so many countries and the people there their livelihood.

And then all that money that would have been spent locally by the workers is gone.In a puff of smoke.

Businesses hurt,all the way down the line.Suppliers to the plants.the Bakers,the Butchers so much gone.

You can imagine how many these loss of jobs can effect.

Effects to families,houses,rents so much goes pear shaped.

 

And skilled workers sitting there and wondering a special look on their faces,in their eyes that i have seen.

Haunts you for ever.Wondering and pondering.

And then way down the line perhaps needed again.

 

To late some may never return as has happened in the past to other industries.

Great Britain with such skills available are being taken for a ride to Bankruptcy.

Just a friendly observation from myself.Probably completely wrong but have let it out now.

As anyone in these forums can, please feel free to do.

Just ordinary folks,concerned aren't we.

 

Really makes me angry.

At one time i will tell you this,i would blockade the ports,say go back whence you came

Go back to China,you are not coming in here.

You are not hurting us this way.

How the hell can you produce steel so cheaply and still make profit after shipping around the world.

Well we know.

And it is a joke.And a bad one,hurting so many.In their country as well as ours.

In many ways.

 

And does no one see how much damage to the environment this costs. All this shipping half way round the world.

Money,money,money that is all some bother about.

Selfish.

 

David Cameron is humiliating Britain by 'sucking up' to the Chinese regime.

Well some of us feel that way anyway.

 

A link.

David Cameron is humiliating Britain by 'sucking up' to the Chinese regime, says PM's former guru Steve Hilton

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-humiliated-by-sucking-up-to-chinese-regime-says-david-camerons-former-guru-steve-hilton-a6702261.html

 

“Forget about the terrible things that the Chinese regime is doing at home, the vicious political oppression and violent physical abuse of women – just look at what they’re doing internationally,”

 

“Militarily threatening their neighbours, empire-building from Africa and on a daily basis stealing property from business and governments around the world through their relentless cyberattacks.

 

Chinese President Xi Jinping is on a four-day visit to the UK where he is expected to sign £20bn worth of business deals.

 

Pocket money.Worth that for the advertising this has given them.

Look how perfect we look now to the world.

Just had dinner with the queen.

Behind the scenes many must be puking up their dinners,

 

Billy bambrough reports on the state of the British Steel industry

https://audioboom.com/boos/3716905-billybambrough-reports-on-the-state-of-the-british-steel-industry-morningmoney?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=card&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

Ah breakfast has arrived,peanut butter on toast,a nice cup of tea.

Bye,ready for reaction.Have your say.

Tawnyowl

[tobyjugg2]

Nice one, they have done the deal and China will invest in our nuclear power generation and other things. Lets get the money in.

 

 

Are you aware that edf's french nuclear power station build is already 6 years overdue and 3x over budget.

 

.. and if you think EDF and China would be paying in that situation in the UK - think again.

The build in the UK is already going to be UK government/taxpayer subsidised ... as will the overspend.

[obiter dictum]

"The build in the UK is already going to be government/taxpayer subsidised ... as will the overspend."

 

Yep paid for by PFI and signed off by Osborne with a two Billion pound sweetner Courtesy of UK tax payer money

[unclebulgaria67]

Are you aware that edf's french nuclear power station build is already 6 years overdue and 3x over budget.

 

.. and if you think EDF and China would be paying in that situation in the UK - think again.

The build in the UK is already going to be government/taxpayer subsidised ... as will the overspend.

 

Borrowing £30 bn from China is only part of it. The Tories seem to just want the UK as totally open market, where anything is for sale and there is nothing that the private sector cannot do,

 

Is this just accepting the world we are in or just very risky ?

 

Why are the Tories against UK government investment in core infrastucture ? They only seem to guarantee private investments and some of these are foreign state owned companies investing in UK because of the return they can obtain.

 

I am not comfortable with a situation, where in say 20 years time UK government and UK companies don't own very much in the UK. As consumers we could get taken for a very expensive ride by foreign company directors making decisions from thousands of miles away.