Stupid Car Smoking Ban in Force 1st October

[Conniff]

A ban on smoking in cars comes into effect just as people are being urged to quit smoking for Stoptober.

 

From 1 October 2015, it will be illegal to smoke in a car (or other vehicles) with anyone under 18 present. The law is changing to protect children and young people from the dangers of secondhand smoke.

 

This is a very silly and unthought out law.

 

A person can smoke in public at the age of 16, so what if a person of 16 or 17 in that car is a smoker and decides to light up. Does it mean the kids can smoke but the driver/parents can't or will they be breaking the law as well.

 

These do-gooders are really thick some times.

[unclebulgaria67]

From the 1/4/16, all people smoking will have to wear a fluorescent safety coat, to warn others that they are smoking, so they can avoid them.

 

As for the car issue, i think the government were looking to increase smoking age to 18. If not, the issue you raise makes the new law a bit silly.

[obiter dictum]

Could it be a child under the law is a person 17 years of age and under? The law is there to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

 

Cigarette smoke in a confined space is unlawful. If it is unlawful to smoke in an open telephone kiosk then it is unlawful in a cars enclosed space

[citizenB]

How are they going to police this - they don't seem to be doing too well with policing the use of mobile phones, or the female putting on her make up, whilst driving.

[obiter dictum]

As before with work vehicles.

 

They use the local authority civil enforcement officers (Parking wardens, litter patrols , council CCTV)

 

They have body cams and will simply enforce by taking down your registration and get a ticket through the post like a council parking ticket

Edited September 24, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Conniff]

Could it be a child under the law is a person 17 years of age and under? The law is there to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

 

Cigarette smoke in a confined space is unlawful. If it is unlawful to smoke in an open telephone kiosk then it is unlawful in a cars enclosed space

 

I know what the law is supposedly designed to do and I agree with it, however, that 'child' could also be a smoker and most peoples living room is also an enclosed space so why isn't the ban to include that.

[obiter dictum]

But a persons living room is not in the public domain unlike a motor vehicle on the road.

 

That is why a CCTV camera in the public domain cannot look directly at your home, your home is still your castle

[king12345]

But a persons living room is not in the public domain unlike a motor vehicle on the road.

 

That is why a CCTV camera in the public domain cannot look directly at your home, your home is still your castle

 

Yes, but for how long more???

[snowdragon]

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Smoking ban in cars with kids was ‘long overdue’, say Wrexham shoppers

Published date: 22 September 2015 | Published by: Romilly Scragg

Read more articles by Romilly Scragg Email reporter

 

WHEN smoking in pubs was banned in Wales in 2007, there were howls of rage over the “nanny state gone mad”. But eight years later, things are rather different.

 

Speaking to shoppers in Wrexham, there was almost total agreement that a law that protected children from secondhand smoke was just common sense.

 

From October 1, it will be an offence to smoke in a vehicle if under-18s are present.

 

It is also an offence not to stop someone smoking in these circumstances.

 

The law is designed to protect children, a minority of whom, according to research, are still being exposed to secondhand smoke.

 

NHS Wales reports that 17 per cent of children from poorer families and seven per cent from wealthier families say smoking is allowed in their car.

 

When the Welsh Government consulted over plans to introduce the ban last year, 86 per cent of those who responded agreed with the proposals.

 

In Wrexham, the response was almost wholly one of approval.

 

Mark Phillips, 66, from Wrexham felt the law was in no doubt.

 

“I totally agree with it,” he said. “I think it’s right. I’m very non-smoking and to be honest I think it should have happened years ago.”

 

He accepted that some would complain but was confident they would come around to it in time.

 

“They’ll have to,” he said.

 

Chris Goodwin, 50, from Dolgellau, believed most would agree with the ban because people are so aware of the damage secondhand smoke can do.

 

“People used to smoke on the bus and in cinemas. It wasn’t good.”

 

A non-smoker himself, he insists his car remains a non-smoking environment and compared being a passenger in a car to visiting someone’s home.

 

“I was taught as a kid that if people tell you to take your shoes off at the door, you do. It’s the same thing,” he said.

 

“I won’t let anyone smoke in my car. You’re breathing in their smoke. It’s not your choice.”

 

Nic Hulley, 42, from Coedpoeth, was in town with daughters Erin and Tasha and granddaughter Lilah.

 

None of them smoke or approve of smoking with children in cars and Erin, 20, and Tasha, 18, were convinced the new law was a good one.

 

But mum Nic suggested the ban might be an infringement of a person’s rights.

 

“It’s your personal space,” she said. ”You’re allowed to smoke in the house. I do think it’s a matter of choice.”

 

However, she added: “I don’t actually know anyone who smokes, even at the pub. It’s gone out of fashion. Banning smoking in pubs was the main thing – making people go outside. That really changed everything.”

 

I questioned two smokers, enjoying a cigarette outside a pub.

 

The two 55-year-old men – from Gwersyllt and Caia Park – were two more who agreed with the new regulation.

 

An elderly lady from Hightown felt people should stop smoking altogether.

 

“The law’s a good idea even for the drivers themselves,” she said. “They’re putting their own health at risk. It’s terrible for children because they can’t choose but it’s no good for grown-ups either.”

 

Wrexham teenager Isaac Jeorrett, 16, admitted disliking the idea of smoking in general.

 

“I think the new law makes perfect sense. It’s about looking after children’s health. I think it’s very reasonable.”

 

And student Josh Gartell, 21, agreed.

 

“Yes, I think it’s a pretty good idea. At least then they’ve got a choice whether they’re taking in secondhand smoke.”

 

He added that a total ban on smoking in cars was also something to be considered.

 

Llew Griffiths, 73, from Llay, gave up smoking 10 years ago on the advice of a doctor.

 

“The law is a very good idea healthwise – if there are children around. If it’s adults who agree with each other smoking, that’s different.”

 

He told me he began smoking, like many others, before the dangers were understood.

 

“I remember my mother taking me to the doctors in the late 40s and the doctor was smoking. That was pretty normal.”

 

In his youth Mr Griffiths was in the Royal Navy where sailors could buy 300 cigarettes a month duty free. It was 10 shillings for 100.

 

“And that was old money,” he told me. “It was really cheap. How they afford it today, I don’t know.”

 

But a decade ago, smoking 50 a day, he was diagnosed with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). He now uses three different inhalers every day to help him breathe.

 

“My doctors told me my airways should be like elastic but mine are like rubber. I wish I’d never had a cigarette in my mouth.”

 

Welsh Government Health and Social Services Minister Mark Drakeford has described the ban as “an opportunity for some people to change their lives for the better”.

 

Mr Griffiths said his life improved when he stopped smoking

 

“It was easier than I thought,” he said. “And if I hadn’t quit, I wouldn’t be here.”

[reallymadwoman]

I smoked for 30 years before quitting 5 years ago. I was a heavy smoker.

 

I never smoked in my house (or anyone else's for that matter!) or my car because a) I didn't see why me smoking should make my children/anyone else in the house/car smoke as well and b) it made the inside of the windows and everything else yellow.

 

One of biggest differences we've noticed since giving up is not having to stop every hour or so during a journey for a fag break which inevitably turns into a coffee break, so long journeys are suddenly much faster. It will be like when the original smoking ban came in, in 5 years time those that want to smoke in their car will be in a minority amongst smokers and everyone will wonder why they ever did it anyway.

[Conniff]

But a persons living room is not in the public domain unlike a motor vehicle on the road.

 

That is why a CCTV camera in the public domain cannot look directly at your home, your home is still your castle

 

But the smoke has the same effect, an enclosed space is an enclosed space no matter where it is. What I am getting at is that a 17 year old could be a smoker, will it be unlawful for them to smoke in a car.

[obiter dictum]

A person 17 years of age is still a child under the law.

 

The law may well allow that person to smoke at home in their own private enviroment or within your own highway boundary, but not in an enclosed area in public like a motor vehicle

[Conniff]

You're not getting the point of this thread or just arguing for a the sake of arguing like you always do.

[obiter dictum]

The point i am getting is that this law has been passed as a matter of public health

 

I have used logical arguments as Persuasion to that law

[snowdragon]

bit more info

 

 

 

The law on e-cigarettes and smoking in cars is going to change on October 1 - making it illegal to smoke in cars if there is someone under 18 present.

 

From that date, it will be illegal for retailers to sell e-cigarette devices to under-18s for the first time - and the same goes for e-liquid cartridges.

 

In cars, drivers will face a fixed penalty of £50 if they permit someone to smoke in the car if there is someone 18 present.

 

Confusingly, drivers aged 17 will be able to smoke on their own in the car – although not to allow other people aged 18 to smoke.

 

Enforcement officers will decide whether to issue a fixed penalty, or if the offence should be referred to court.

 

The Department of Heath says: ‘Every time a child breathes in secondhand smoke, they breathe in thousands of chemicals. This puts them at risk of serious conditions, such as meningitis, cancer and respiratory infections such as bronchitis and pneumonia. It can also make asthma worse.'

[obiter dictum]

Th simple fact is that smoking now in the public domain is seen as anti social, the same as drink driving.

 

People are well informed now of the dangers of not only smoking, but passive smoking as well.

 

The law has a duty to protect those people who cannot make an informed choice such as children.

 

Not to mention stinking of cigarette smoke, and that is with a non smoker every time you go to a pub for a meal. You have to cut through pea soup smog at the door

[BazzaS]

A car is not a public space.

If you really believe it is, let me know when / where you'll be and I'll ask people to open your doors and climb in .......

 

However, children need protection from adults who expose them to smoke, where the child doesn't have the power to stop the adult smoking.

"Ahh, but we can do it at home" comes the reply ..... Yes, you can, but where it is such a risk it amounts to neglect, the child could be taken into care ......

 

So, I'm not averse to the new law.

 

I should point out I'm a non-smoker.

I don't believe in the total ban on smoking in public buildings.

I do believe I shouldn't be made to breathe others smoke.

Rather than a total ban, I feel buildings should be able to create a sealed off smoking area (with adequate ventilation, behind an 'airlock' of two doors that can't be open at the same time)

If smokers want to smoke in there that's none of my business once I'm protected from their smoke.

 

Such a sealed area won't be feasible within a car, and children won't have the power to stop the adults smoking : so the new law is proportionate.

[estellyn]

But the smoke has the same effect, an enclosed space is an enclosed space no matter where it is. What I am getting at is that a 17 year old could be a smoker, will it be unlawful for them to smoke in a car.

 

I assume that yes, it will be unlawful for 16 and 17 year olds to smoke in cars - unless there is a caveat in the law that covers them.

 

And I suspect we are going to get to the point where smoking in any enclosed space with a child is illegal - and I firmly agree with that. I grew up in a house full of smokers and it is highly unpleasant and damaging to the health of the child who has no choice. Now I have family who refuse to subject anyone to their habit and smoke in the garden.

[Ganymede]

It's an excellent law and not stupid at all.

 

You should not be able to smoke in a car with a baby/toddler with you.

[Conniff]

I agree the law in general is good, but it's the wording of it that's not so.

[obiter dictum]

When statute does not clarify points of law it is then left to the judiciary to interpret the intentions of Parliament in casting that law

[Conniff]

I don't think I've come across a statute yet that didn't require explanation and clarification. More work for our crowded courts.

[obiter dictum]

Well Judicial interpretation has been with us for over 800 years. It is only since Government started to interfere with so called reforms in the court process that the judiciary are now finding it difficult. Hence the revolt by the law society.

 

It would have helped if we actually had a lord Chancellor who held a law degree

 

The Judiciary are firecely independent of the executive being part of our constitution

Edited September 27, 2015 by obiter dictum

[citizenB]

How about preventing kids from drinking alcohol... ban parents from keeping it in accessible cupboards and fridges !

 

Just remember people, when they have finished bashing smokers, they will have those who eat chocolates or crisps in their sights.

[obiter dictum]

They real culprits are those that push cheap processed foods on our kids full of salt and sugar.

 

That is where legislation is needed on cheap TV Dinners making sure the food we eat complies with a minimum nutrition standard