What a Brilliant and 'Fair' Budget

[Conniff]

This has to be the best budget in decades. Labour may claim some of it was their idea, what rubbish, they don't have copyright on the few similar words that were used.

[unclebulgaria67]

Wish CAG would stop being used for partisan politics, whether it is Tory, Labour or Monster raving loonies. Does not fit with the site and starts an unnecessary argument.

 

As for the budget, it was a mixed bag of measures. What is happening in Europe and China in particular might impact on the recovery of the economy and how quickly the deficit is eliminated. I cannot see the actual debt being reduced until after 2020.

[aburobert]

Tell that to those poor sods at the bottom of the pile that lost out. There was the single library assistant sobbing on one of the TV programmes last night with two children who was significantly worse off - as an example. Osbourne gave away with one hand and significantly clawed back with the other.

 

All he seemed to do is shift the onus from the Government by getting rid of tax credits, maintainance grants for students, over 70's TV licence etc etc. on to business to finance who don't lose out anyway because of cuts to things like corporation tax

 

Those at the bottom simply stay there and many are significantly worse off.

[Conniff]

I've never agreed with University grants. University isn't education, it's job training and as was said yesterday, "there was a basic unfairness in asking taxpayers to fund grants for people who are likely to earn a lot more than them".

If you give grants to them, then why not the likes of Tesco for training the checkout girls and shelf stackers.

[unclebulgaria67]

I've never agreed with University grants. University isn't education, it's job training and as was said yesterday, "there was a basic unfairness in asking taxpayers to fund grants for people who are likely to earn a lot more than them".

If you give grants to them, then why not the likes of Tesco for training the checkout girls and shelf stackers.

 

It is a fair point, but it really depends on what the economy wants. I think some degree courses should offer incentives, if they are likely to produce peope vital to the country in the future. So science, engineering and some technology type courses, could offer a fee reduction if the student obtains a certain pass mark, to act as an incentive. The could do similar with the grant element.

[citizenB]

I would be more than happy to fund those people who are going on to work within the NHS - Doctors, Nurses, Radiotherapists. Teachers even.... But would not be too keen on funding media studies, politics, art courses, etc.

[SabreSheep]

Wish CAG would stop being used for partisan politics, whether it is Tory, Labour or Monster raving loonies. Does not fit with the site and starts an unnecessary argument.

 

As for the budget, it was a mixed bag of measures. What is happening in Europe and China in particular might impact on the recovery of the economy and how quickly the deficit is eliminated. I cannot see the actual debt being reduced until after 2020.

 

I think its hard to avoid considering a lot of our members come here for advice as a direct result of "political decisions" being made. And also that is why this thread is in the Bear Garden

 

Also I like the fact that the Site team are very Varied on the political rainbow. More often than not, you will find me on the other bench as it were to Conniff, but we both accept the right to hold opposing views..

 

Debate is healthy

 

That being said, I like some of the budget but have big concerns about other bits.

 

Is it fair that company's pay low wages knowing the state will subsidise through tax credits? No. So that move regarding a higher minimum wage is a good one. It will encourage employers to employ under 25s to avoid it so will help with youth unemployment. Over 25s may suffer a bit.

 

Bit sneaky with the VED, BUT if it is going to eventually be used to reinvest in roads then ok, I can support that.

 

No housing benefit for 18-21. Very concerned. There are a lot of vulnerable people out there that rely on housing benefit to be able to be housed in hostels. A return to the 1980s rough sleeping and all that comes with it may be on the way back. A safety net needs to be put in place.

 

I suspect they realise that the austerity programmer has reached saturation point on what the populace will tolerate. Hence the delayed introduction on measures and "new claimants only" measures.

[Mr.P]

Osbourne gave away with one hand and significantly clawed back with the other.

 

Chancellors have been doing this since the dawn of budgets. Making nominal cuts in income tax on one hand and then put up fuel duty on the other. Did you notice VAT on insurance premiums is to be increased ?

 

If you give grants to them, then why not the likes of Tesco for training the checkout girls and shelf stackers.

 

But then Tesco, Poundland, and other retailers already get free labour from the Job Centre under the guise of "training". Otherwise known a Workplace Academy or Mandatory Work Activity - All of which is funded by the tax payer including the substantial placement fees that are paid out to private companies.

[unclebulgaria67]

What i do not like is the divisive nature of doing the budgets. So much of it is politically driven. The government identifues who is likely to vote for them and implements measures which they think are helpful.

[silverfox1961]

I feel the budget missed out on one important matter. Zero Hours Contracts. With the new 'living wage' employers could employ the bare minimum of staff to keep the business running and have other staff on call during busy periods.

 

I hope that there is some provision for people under 21 where there is abuse to be able to get supported housing and what about care leavers? Childrens homes kick out people when they reach 18.

 

With specialist skills required for the UK economy, I am all for subsidised training BUT once qualified must stay in this country for a set period before sodding off abroad for better wages.

[tobyjugg2]

I've never agreed with University grants. University isn't education, it's job training and as was said yesterday, "there was a basic unfairness in asking taxpayers to fund grants for people who are likely to earn a lot more than them".

If you give grants to them, then why not the likes of Tesco for training the checkout girls and shelf stackers.

 

and apprentices get paid - admittedly a lower amount than skilled workers (just like students),

or are are you saying that only the wealthy should have access to higher education for their kids?

Presumably followed by only healthcare, then fire service, police...

 

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that the pre-existing system was correct - it should have been far more merit based, with 'students' kicked out for not delivering results, but lining up massive debt for all students, not just those who will end up as highly paid lawyers, bankers and politicians, is just as wrong as giving those places to the minority of idiots who throw away the opportunity they have been given.

[Nystagmite]

They're going to put a lot of students off going to uni. This possibly means that more will be claiming benefits because they can't get a job. Fantastic.

 

I'm not suggesting we give students a free education; but putting them in that much debt is just wrong. Currently, if you go to uni, take out the minimum loan and the tuition fees, that's over £36k over 3 years.

[Conniff]

There isn't blanket ban on 18 - 21 yo getting housing benefit there are circumstances that will allow them to claim.

 

Also I like the fact that the Site team are very Varied on the political rainbow. More often than not, you will find me on the other bench as it were to Conniff, but we both accept the right to hold opposing views..

 

We certainly do. I don't have a single political bend, I have voted for both parties in the past, usually Labour, but the last two times I have voted Conservative as I looked at the manifestos of both and 'personally' decided that what was on offer from the Tories was more beneficial to the country than what was being offered by Labour.

 

 

But then Tesco, Poundland, and other retailers already get free labour from the Job Centre under the guise of "training". Otherwise known a Workplace Academy or Mandatory Work Activity - All of which is funded by the tax payer including the substantial placement fees that are paid out to private companies.

 

That was intended to put a point across not be a specific case, if grants are available to pay one group, then why not all trainees in all walks of life.

[tobyjugg2]

That was intended to put a point across not be a specific case, if grants are available to pay one group, then why not all trainees in all walks of life.

 

Because of the inherent difference between investing 2 weeks in training and the 3-10 years investment needed to get a good degree + experience.

 

(A number of degrees need the investment in maths etc before you even get on the course)

 

I think that the proper education and opportunities for the nations young (not just your own) is the MOST important thing - above healthcare even.

Our future does depend on it.

[Conniff]

Ok, I will rephrase that, 'if grants are available to pay one group for training, they should be available for all groups in all walks of life'.

[Conniff]

If Ed Balls had presented this budget, all the left wingers, labour, trade unionist and communists would be shouting 'genius'.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Conniff

[obiter dictum]

So then anyone who does not vote Tory or the kippers is instantly a left wing communist?

 

And if you honestly believe the labour party leadership is left wing there really is no hope for the country

[Conniff]

Where does it say labour are left wing or communist ?

[obiter dictum]

You stated labour in your comment will be shouting "Genius" in the same sentence as Communists and "Left Wingers" as a presumption all characteristics are to the left in politics

[Conniff]

Ah, I see, you didn't do grammar at your school.

[obiter dictum]

Usual routine when the argument has been lost is then to revert to insults. I expect that from the kippers, not from a site team member

[Conniff]

I'm not a site team member, I am just an ordinary citizen voicing my opinion.

 

PS, I've edited my original sentence as I forgot one.

[obiter dictum]

Error on my part and removed

[tobyjugg2]

Ok, I will rephrase that, 'if grants are available to pay one group for training, they should be available for all groups in all walks of life'.

 

I fail to see how that changes anything.

 

There is still a WORLD of difference between your example couple of days (or minutes) on the job training as a Tesco shelf stacker and someone spending 3 years (let alone more) getting a degree .

 

Even apprentices for a C&G get paid as they learn and attend college on day release, but could you see any employer paying for the amount of time in someone getting a degree?

 

So we would be back to only wealthy families getting higher education - and once that starts, it would soon be only those who can pay get any education.

 

Not only wrong from a moral standpoint, think of all the genuine talent that would be wasted.

[Conniff]

No, it won't be back to only wealthy families, (it never has been anyway). Employers don't have to pay, the student gets a loan as laid down.