Help with council caution issued under section 112(1A)

[crow_raven]

Hi everyone,

I just join to this forum, and I need a little bit of help on my doubts regarding a council caution.

My caution doesn't involve dishonesty of my part.

Is this type of cautions the same as police cautions they are recorded on PNC or they are criminal recorded anywhere? it will remain forever in my files?

 

 

I'm really worried about this, how could this reflect in my future? i.e work.

thank you in advance.

[dx100uk]

bit diff to speculate till we know what the caution was please

 

 

dx

[crow_raven]

hi it was failure to report change of circumstances for housing benefit.

I didn't know that I should have reported and explained why I didn't reported and they understand my position and the amount overpaid was not too much , they said they have to issue me a caution under section 112(1A) as this is part of the process. I accepted, as it was my fault no report the change of circumstances I must say the people involve were really helpful and friendly with me.

[tomtom256]

It stays on departmental records for five years. By departmental this means the DWP and LA. Shouldn't be on PNC, but is reportable if asked.

 

Google Simple Cautions for Adult Offenders.

 

However if you did not admit the offence then you shouldn't have had a caution, as admittance is the key factor in issuing one.

[crow_raven]

I've to admit as it was my fault I haven't intention of decive anyone but I should know that I have to report such changes.

So it's recordeble for both departments for the period of 5 years what will happen after the 5 years it will remain or it will be deleted?

If for example I want to go for a job on my local school do I have to mention that ?

Do I have to report this insident to my present manager ?

I'm no a criminal person I never had any problems with the law and now for a silly thing of misunderstanding looks like I'm going to pay for long time.

Thank you .

[tomtom256]

After five years it will should be deleted.

 

There is much debate whether it needs to be disclosed. Morally you should but with regards DBS/CRB if it isn;t on PNC it won't/shouldn't show up on these checks.

 

Even though you where at fault, does not mean you have committed fraud, however for a caution you have to admit guilt. An administrative penalty (out of court fine) may have been more suitable as these do not need declaring, but are still kept on record for the five years and incur a cost penalty.

[mikeymack2002]

Have a read here it may give you the answers you are looking for see here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?442050-Benefit-fraud-what-is-the-future-%281-Viewing%29-nbsp

[crow_raven]

Thank you for your help.

I still in much doubts how much this will affect my career or my future.

Do I have to tell my present boss or in the future do I have to disclose this sad incident on any job applications is this criminal recorded in my name?

I don't understand as the this gentleman at the council told me that is nothing to worried only to mention if I apply for council job and in this case he gave me is phone member and gave me authorization to put his number on council job application in the next 3 years ( if I make one )so they can call him and he will explain that was nothing and I'm a honest person and this just came across because I really wasn't aware that the change will affect my HB that's way my caution does not involve dishonesty.

also he told me that is not a criminal record and will not go on police computer.

But now you are saying 5 years and I'm really confused.

[twoconcernedsisters]

I always was led to believe that any caution issued is both a recordable and reportable matter.

 

 

My husband received a caution after challenging a traffic warden. A car was parked almost covering the pavement and our little girl hit her head on the wing mirror that jutted out as they tried to squeeze through the gap. He saw a traffic warden across the street and went over to challenge him about either having the car towed away or clamped. The warden wasn't interested as he said that his shift had finished and was going back to the police station. Cut a long story short, my husband lost his temper with him and verbally abused him pointing out the blood that was on our little girl's forehead. Next thing the police arrived and arrested my husband. They brought our daughter home in a police car. My husband admitted a public order offence and accepted a caution.

Now every time we go to America for a holiday, he has to get a visa from the American Embassy in London at a total cost of over £600 a year!!

[crow_raven]

really sorry to hear that especial when children are involve I'm father of 3 and I know the filing its worst to hurt our children than us , but there is a main difference my caution does not involve police at all.

[antone]

I always was led to believe that any caution issued is both a recordable and reportable matter.

 

 

My husband received a caution after challenging a traffic warden. A car was parked almost covering the pavement and our little girl hit her head on the wing mirror that jutted out as they tried to squeeze through the gap. He saw a traffic warden across the street and went over to challenge him about either having the car towed away or clamped. The warden wasn't interested as he said that his shift had finished and was going back to the police station. Cut a long story short, my husband lost his temper with him and verbally abused him pointing out the blood that was on our little girl's forehead. Next thing the police arrived and arrested my husband. They brought our daughter home in a police car. My husband admitted a public order offence and accepted a caution.

Now every time we go to America for a holiday, he has to get a visa from the American Embassy in London at a total cost of over £600 a year!!

 

A caution issued by the police is not the same as a departmental caution issued by the DWP or other government department.

[crow_raven]

that's what I was been told as well, just confused how much this will affect me on my life?

[twoconcernedsisters]

A caution issued by the police is not the same as a departmental caution issued by the DWP or other government department.

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware that there was any difference. Reading what has been said on here, the person concerned clearly admitted a criminal offence but dealt with by the la instead of the police. Criminal is criminal to me.

[antone]

Thanks, I wasn't aware that there was any difference. Reading what has been said on here, the person concerned clearly admitted a criminal offence but dealt with by the la instead of the police. Criminal is criminal to me.

 

The law does not agree with you.

[twoconcernedsisters]

The law does not agree with you.

 

Hello, yes that seems to be the case.

Still amazed that you can carry out a benefit fraud and depending on who deals with it - police/DWP/LA

will dictate whether you have a criminal conviction that will come up on a disclosure report or not.

[Ford]

hi it was failure to report change of circumstances for housing benefit.

I didn't know that I should have reported and explained why I didn't reported and they understand my position and the amount overpaid was not too much , they said they have to issue me a caution under section 112(1A) as this is part of the process. I accepted, as it was my fault no report the change of circumstances I must say the people involve were really helpful and friendly with me.

 

just some general info for ref

 

technicalities required, if this still stands

ie http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/benefit-claims/65512.fullarticle

 

but, you admitted

 

an eg re what happens when called in

http://www.tmbc.gov.uk/services/advice-and-benefits/benefits/benefits-fraud-investigation/benefits-investigation-section/interview-under-caution

[crow_raven]

yes but it says that will be recorded at LA/DWP that mans both places but for how long 3 or years as the officer told me if you apply for LA job in the next 3 Years to put it down otherwise after 3 years not necessary?

so its 3 or 5 years about job outside LA do I need to declare it ?

thank you .

[Ford]

outside dwp, its not on pnc so seems dont need to declare re dbs. briefly, see for eg

http://www.nacro.org.uk/what-we-do/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/advice/frequently-asked-questions/criminal-records-and-dbs-crb-checks,1616,NAP.html#7

[mikeymack2002]

Will this help you

 

 

"Does the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act cover cautions?

Yes. The law was changed on 19 December 2008. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act now covers simple cautions, reprimands and warnings (which become spent immediately) and conditional cautions (which become spent after 3 months). The change covers all cautions, reprimands, and warnings including those administered before 19 December 2008.

Fixed Penalty Notices and Penalty Notices for Disorder do not form part of a person’s criminal record as there is no admission of guilt and they therefore do not need to be covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act."

[crow_raven]

thank you ford I'm a bit less worried now thank you .

[crow_raven]

Will this help you

 

 

"Does the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act cover cautions?

Yes. The law was changed on 19 December 2008. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act now covers simple cautions, reprimands and warnings (which become spent immediately) and conditional cautions (which become spent after 3 months). The change covers all cautions, reprimands, and warnings including those administered before 19 December 2008.

Fixed Penalty Notices and Penalty Notices for Disorder do not form part of a person’s criminal record as there is no admission of guilt and they therefore do not need to be covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act."

 

 

My understanding is this type of caution isn't a simple or conditional but a formal .

[tomtom256]

Simple Cautions are Formal Cautions, it's the same thing.

 

Check your paperwork and it should say what they have given you.

[id6052]

the only occasions i am aware of where this has become an issue is : -

1. if you apply for a job in LA or DWP (not sure of DWP timeframe, but LAs in my local areas say 5 years)
   
2. you are investigated for a further social security offence (they may take ino account prevous caution, and therefore next offence could be automatically prosecution)
   

[crow_raven]

lets say that I apply for job in my LA after 5 years this still have impact on it or it will be deleted and there is no interest on this anymore ?thank you.

[id6052]

i cant speak for your own LA, but i know one of my neighbouring LAs has recruited someone who was prosecuted and found guilty for a more serious benefit offence - it was just after 5 years so it was treated as spent