Wonga Complaint - Success

[bd1972]

Yes i see its wonga related. But even your own posts mention wage day advance. Also i was only telling people some good news maybe get off your high horse.

[Crashed767]

Yes i see its wonga related. But even your own posts mention wage day advance. Also i was only telling people some good news maybe get off your high horse.

 

Yeah I've mentioned WDA but only in Wonga related posts. I'm not on no high horse and I think its great that these companies are paying people back when they have ruined so many peoples lives, yours included! However what Cash Genie have paid you has nothing to do with Wonga, and people come here to find information on Wonga... you posting here only dilutes the information included on this thread on Wonga and causes it to go off topic. It's nothing personal, just your post is better situated on the Cash Genie forum, not the Wonga one, people are here for Wonga related information.

[citizenB]

This thread is for Wonga

 

Still useful information

[Crashed767]

Still useful information

 

Agreed better placed on the cash genie forum

[MrMbE]

Hi wondering if someone can help me understand a decision I got from the Ombudsman. I'll type in a paragraph below.

 

"Overall I agree with the adjudicator that it's fair and reasonable resolution of this complaint for Wonga to refund Mr X all interest and charges on all his loans from xx/xx/xx together with interest on the sum paid. That is of course assuming it hasn't already done so under its forbearance scheme. For the avoidance of doubt Wonga shouldn't deduct from the redress I have awarded any capital or principle sums it's already written off under its forbearance scheme".

 

It's the bits about the forbearance scheme and redress that I'm not quite getting. Wonga did write of my last loan.

[citizenB]

Hmm, it is a bit of a puzzle isn't it. I will try and find someone who can interpret for you ! If not, you might have to refer back to the Adjudicator for a more clearer explanation.

[citizenB]

Here you go MrMbE, translated so we can both understand

 

Wonga quite a while ago were told to clean up their act

out of that came the forbearance scheme

 

 

10'000's of people have in all essence had their loans written off.

 

 

he is saying that he is awarding the customer redress,

and that, Wonga should not be reducing that redress figure

by anything that they would normally have written off under the forbearance scheme anyway

[Crashed767]

He is also saying if they have already refunded you / written off a loan under the forbearance scheme they do not have to refund interest and charges from that loan just the rest.

[MrMbE]

Thank you citizen B and crashed767 I've been looking back at the letter again now it does seem to be clearer.

[Crashed767]

Looking at previous decisions Wonga have tried to argue that they have written a loan off under the forbearance scheme so therefore they should be able to reduce the redress by that amount. The FOS's stance is that they the forbearance scheme is a separate issue and therefore nothing to do with the redress on loans now. Wonga seem to have stopped requesting that now but looks like the ombudsman is just spelling it out to them anyway.

[MrMbE]

That's what I was hopping it was. If you look at the wording of it it seemed he was saying the opposite. But now I've read it a couple of times and it's making sense.

 

I have read a couple of previous decisions where the ombudsman actually did do the opposite.

[Crashed767]

My adjudicator has gone from agreeing that the loans were unaffordable (based on my bank statements) before Wonga replied to now saying that all but 3 loans were affordable. She says that the only checks they were required to carry out were income. This is way out of line with other adjudicators and ombudsman who say that by only taking income into account they "put yourselves at risk of lending irresponsibly". I have replied stating that by not asking my outgoings that they did in fact put themselves at risk of lending irresponsibly. She also says that I did not make Wonga aware I was experiencing financial difficulties until the last loan I too from them. I have replied saying that the should have known this has they carried out proper affordability checks. She says she has been told that they are not required to carry out any affordability checks specificity and in general they ask income. I have replied saying thats true, but by not asking outgoings they put themselves at risk of lending irresponsibly.

 

The game continues...

[citizenB]

My adjudicator has gone from agreeing that the loans were unaffordable (based on my bank statements) before Wonga replied to now saying that all but 3 loans were affordable.

 

She says that the only checks they were required to carry out were income. This is way out of line with other adjudicators and ombudsman who say that by only taking income into account they "put yourselves at risk of lending irresponsibly".

 

I have replied stating that by not asking my outgoings that they did in fact put themselves at risk of lending irresponsibly. She also says that I did not make Wonga aware I was experiencing financial difficulties until the last loan I too from them. I have replied saying that the should have known this has they carried out proper affordability checks. She says she has been told that they are not required to carry out any affordability checks specificity and in general they ask income. I have replied saying thats true, but by not asking outgoings they put themselves at risk of lending irresponsibly.

 

The game continues...

 

What utter nonsense - of course they are obliged to take into account your income and expenditure - they need to know what disposable income you have left in order to establish if you can afford to repay the loan.

 

You need to get the complaint escalated to an Ombudsman proper.

[Crashed767]

What utter nonsense - of course they are obliged to take into account your income and expenditure - they need to know what disposable income you have left in order to establish if you can afford to repay the loan.

 

You need to get the complaint escalated to an Ombudsman proper.

 

I sent the ajudicator another email basically asking what exactly Wonga have replied & asked how she come to her conclusion that they only have to consider income etc.. She replied "Thank you for your response. I was away from the office and have just read your response. I will be referring the matter to a colleague for discussion and will get back to you shortly." Which hopefully means I made a strong argument in relation to her view on the case & she needs a second opinion. I'll be waiting for her response and make my final response on the matter and ask for an ombudsman to make a decision.

 

What I really don't understand is how she can say in her first view "Mr X has given me some information about his income and expenditure which suggests that he could not afford to repay these loans." (I provided bank statements, so her view was based on my actual financial position at the time). Then in her second view "Wonga took into account your monthly net income of £X, and with this, they were able to assess what the maximum amount they are able to lend you in accordance with what you earned. From looking at the amounts that they had granted you, I feel that they were not too high or unaffordable."

 

It just makes no sense whatsoever - its like Wonga cast a magic spell on her or something. Anyway, I'll see what she says and then ask for an ombudsman.

[Crashed767]

Email from the ajudicator, she has requested more information from Wonga to address my most recent concerns, complaining to the FOS really is a long drawn out process. She also said that she has taken on my complain about another pay day loan provider... not sure if that is a good or bad thing

[acid53]

crashed - such are the vagaries of the FOS, it really all depends on the adjudicator - if you look at the FOS decisions database, virtually every complaint is getting upheld against Wonga so I would let it it roll to the Ombudsman if you dont get a favourable decision. as been posted here before some adjudicators are plain lazy and will just skim over the case, some very competent...it is a bit of a roulette but in general depending on income only when lending is over a period of time is seen as irresponsible and unaffordable

[James31]

She also said that she has taken on my complain about another pay day loan provider... not sure if that is a good or bad thing

 

I've wondered that before. Anybody know how many adjudicators there are roughly? I find it slightly embarrassing to have two complaints of a similar nature looked at by the same person, for some reason.

[Crashed767]

I agree, I feel like one complaint can prejudice the other - although they say it shouldn't.

[Guest]

I've wondered that before. Anybody know how many adjudicators there are roughly? I find it slightly embarrassing to have two complaints of a similar nature looked at by the same person, for some reason.

 

There's a small team of 5 that deals specifically with payday loans.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/sep/02/financial-ombudsman-payday-loans-disputes-lenders-14-days

[Crashed767]

Email from ajudicator today:

 

"Just a quick update to let you know that I still haven’t heard from Wonga in regards to the questions you raised about whether a credit check was conducted.

 

I’d like to highlight, that pay day loan providers are not obliged to conduct a credit search for customers, however must satisfy themselves that the customer is able to pay back the loan by taking a customer’s income details. From the information that Wonga have provided me with, I can see that the risk status was not high in order to show that they had lent irresponsibly to you.

 

If you would still like to know whether they conducted a credit check, please let me know. I have chased this up again as of today, however I haven’t received a response from them for the past 2 weeks."

 

I've just emailed back asking for this to go to an ombudsman, stressing that I believe that taking income into account is irrelevant unless considering outgoings.

[citizenB]

Unbelievable..

[messedaround]

This story makes me fear my road ahead with the fos

[Crashed767]

I wouldn't fear it, its been a very long process for me though. Wonga have not been very forthcoming with information so this has taken a long time. However, my ajudicator has gone from saying; "I’m unable to determine what measures were taken to make sure he could afford to repay these loans, however Mr Crashed has informed me that although you asked him what his income was, you did not ask about his outgoings. Mr Crashed has given me some information about his income and expenditure which suggests that he could not afford to repay these loans." To sending me the email above today. One word of advice I would have is that you really do need to argue your point and not leave it to the ajudicator to just gather whatever information they feel like asking for, as you can see from the above she hasn't even asked for evidence that Wonga completed a credit check before issuing her final view on the case - although she has basically said she doesn't feel that they needed to in any case. I am in a position where it is not about the money, I have complained due to the practices of Wonga being irresponsible, so to me whatever the outcome Wonga have still had to pay the £500 FOS charge so its win/win for me. I've just tried phoning my ajudicator however she is in a meeting until 1.30, going to phone back later and just get some clarifications before it goes to an ombudsman.

[JEC1965]

Crashed 767 - You should definitely refer to an Ombudsman. In my experience some of the adjudicators don't seem to understand the meaning of irresponsible lending.

 

 

I received a final response from an Ombudsman yesterday regarding my complaint against Lending Stream and in it he stated

 

 

"lenders need to do sufficient checks to make sure they are lending responsibly. I cannot tell Lending Stream what specific checks it should have done but if they had done the checks it would have soon become clear what Miss C's situation was. Further even if it knew nothing about the other loans Miss C had it did know it had lent to her 13 times in a 2 year period. "

[Crashed767]

So... I have spoken to her and it is her view that as I paid every loan on time Wonga was not to know that I was in financial difficulty. She also stated that in the T&Cs of the loan Wonga state that a customer is obligated to tell them if your in financial difficulties. She dismissed the fact I took out 13 loans in 12 months, completely disregarded that payday loans should be used for short term lending only. She said "there are no set rules on how many loans they can give". Basically she feels the onus was on me to ensure the loans were affordable & not Wonga. She said Wonga did agree to refund interest on the last loan which she felt was unaffordable, I explained that they would agree because they know all the loans were unaffordable. Anyway, we both agreed that we were at an impasse so she is sending it to an ombudsman on Monday. So I'll just wait and see how that goes. I have to go through this all again yet with the same ajudicator for wagedayadvance