puppy sold with known heart murmur...Section 13 SOGA valid?

[georeg&Albert]

Good afternoon I am after help in regards to the sale of my French Bulldog puppy bought on 6/8/14.

 

He was advertised as a pick of the litter and in good health.. He is kennel Club registered and the breeder is a Kennel Club assured breeder and I felt I did everything I could to ensure I was purchasing a healthy and happy puppy. I have a copy of his original advert, plus a copy of the contract I signed when I picked him up as proof of the sale

 

The very next day I took him to his new vet for a check over and to get him wormed and registered, only to be told the devastating news that he had a heart murmur. The breeder denied that they knew about this and kept advising he had a clear vet health check ( i now have a copy of this check and there is no mention of his heart . bet states t was checked but if checked it should be on his notes...it isn't!)

 

I instructed my vets to get all his vaccinations & the health check paper work from his old vets, to only be told more devastating news that the breeder knew he was ill at his 2nd vaccination, as it on his notes that he could drop dead at any time – I have a copy of this note as proof that the breeders knew ( she now states her mother took him and kept it from her - however she is the client at the surgery)

 

Due to this non-disclosure my 4 week insurance i had when i picked him up is probably invalid, as his heart will be deemed as a pre condition, which wasn’t advised when he was purchased and insurance taken out on him.

 

I am looking to sue the breeder for all his medical treatment and surgery

My claim is made on the grounds that the item purchased (the puppy) was faulty (as confirmed by a heart scan with took place on the 14/8/14 ) and that they are liable for any misrepresentation or breach of contract under section 13 SOGA 1974

 

I have spoken to trading standards and the kennel club and it is confirmed to me that the breeder is liable if they sell a puppy that is defective. (BUT IS THIS ONLY IF THEY ARE A BUSINESS ?- she has a website and a shop on her premises but she states here kennels aren't a business)

This is law under Section 13 of Sale of Goods Act 1979. Even if the breeder carries out all the health screening required for their breed, if they sell a puppy that is defective they are still liable to either refund the purchase price on the return of the puppy, (which due to the fact, he is now a much-loved member of the family, this would be impossible to me, as it would cause me the highest level of emotional distress to return him - however she did offer this, but i said it was not possible) or to pay to have the puppy's defect fixed - which is my intent.

 

I understood it that if the purchaser does not have to return the puppy under SOGA 1979 but is entitled to do so. If they wish to keep the puppy then they can seek reasonable damages i.e. the cost of operations or medication to put it right.

 

Anybody who breeds more than one litter is a breeder/trader (even breeding just one litter does not absolve the breeder from their obligations under consumer legislation) and therefore even if they did everything possible to protect themselves from producing any health defects in their puppies, they will still be liable unless they pointed out the defect prior to purchase. Which they did not, even though it was in writing from their vets. - BREEDER ADVISES SHE IS NOT A BUSINESS JUST A HOBBY BREEDER WILL THIS MATTER?

 

The puppy has undertaken 2x full heart scan and is now getting ready for surgery in September. All of these medical interventions will cost in approx of £6000.00 , as still awaiting estimate for surgery ( £1000= has been spent on heart scans to date)

 

Please can you advise where I stand on trying to get back some of my money please. I have sent a letter to the breeder outlining all of the above , another another letter outlining all costs i wish her to pay, plus now a letter before court.

Once his surgery has been complete i will have invoice for all bills and will proceed to court if you feel i have a case but any advice on where I stand legally would be a great help please

[Ford]

seems as if they wld be 'commercial' ie subject to.

wldn't a pre condition disclosure be re if known prior by policyholder? ie you didnt know.

as you decided to keep, rather than return when offered, may present some difficulty re yr costs thereafter? (were costs up to also offered?)

others will no doubt look in for you just now

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good afternoon I am after help in regards to the sale of my French Bulldog puppy bought on 6/8/14.

 

He was advertised as a pick of the litter and in good health.. He is kennel Club registered and the breeder is a Kennel Club assured breeder and I felt I did everything I could to ensure I was purchasing a healthy and happy puppy. I have a copy of his original advert, plus a copy of the contract I signed when I picked him up as proof of the sale

 

The very next day I took him to his new vet for a check over and to get him wormed and registered, only to be told the devastating news that he had a heart murmur. The breeder denied that they knew about this and kept advising he had a clear vet health check ( i now have a copy of this check and there is no mention of his heart . bet states t was checked but if checked it should be on his notes...it isn't!)

 

I instructed my vets to get all his vaccinations & the health check paper work from his old vets, to only be told more devastating news that the breeder knew he was ill at his 2nd vaccination, as it on his notes that he could drop dead at any time – I have a copy of this note as proof that the breeders knew ( she now states her mother took him and kept it from her - however she is the client at the surgery)

 

Due to this non-disclosure my 4 week insurance i had when i picked him up is probably invalid, as his heart will be deemed as a pre condition, which wasn’t advised when he was purchased and insurance taken out on him.

 

I am looking to sue the breeder for all his medical treatment and surgery

My claim is made on the grounds that the item purchased (the puppy) was faulty (as confirmed by a heart scan with took place on the 14/8/14 ) and that they are liable for any misrepresentation or breach of contract under section 13 SOGA 1974

 

I have spoken to trading standards and the kennel club and it is confirmed to me that the breeder is liable if they sell a puppy that is defective. (BUT IS THIS ONLY IF THEY ARE A BUSINESS ?- she has a website and a shop on her premises but she states here kennels aren't a business)

This is law under Section 13 of Sale of Goods Act 1979. Even if the breeder carries out all the health screening required for their breed, if they sell a puppy that is defective they are still liable to either refund the purchase price on the return of the puppy, (which due to the fact, he is now a much-loved member of the family, this would be impossible to me, as it would cause me the highest level of emotional distress to return him - however she did offer this, but i said it was not possible) or to pay to have the puppy's defect fixed - which is my intent.

 

I understood it that if the purchaser does not have to return the puppy under SOGA 1979 but is entitled to do so. If they wish to keep the puppy then they can seek reasonable damages i.e. the cost of operations or medication to put it right.

 

Anybody who breeds more than one litter is a breeder/trader (even breeding just one litter does not absolve the breeder from their obligations under consumer legislation) and therefore even if they did everything possible to protect themselves from producing any health defects in their puppies, they will still be liable unless they pointed out the defect prior to purchase. Which they did not, even though it was in writing from their vets. - BREEDER ADVISES SHE IS NOT A BUSINESS JUST A HOBBY BREEDER WILL THIS MATTER?

 

The puppy has undertaken 2x full heart scan and is now getting ready for surgery in September. All of these medical interventions will cost in approx of £6000.00 , as still awaiting estimate for surgery ( £1000= has been spent on heart scans to date)

 

Please can you advise where I stand on trying to get back some of my money please. I have sent a letter to the breeder outlining all of the above , another another letter outlining all costs i wish her to pay, plus now a letter before court.

Once his surgery has been complete i will have invoice for all bills and will proceed to court if you feel i have a case but any advice on where I stand legally would be a great help please

 

 

As an ex dog breeder ( 70s & 80s) I firmly believe the breeder is totally liable clearly the breeder new of the dogs heart condition and covered up the fact.

 

 

What is needed now is a "letter before action" Outlining your points of complaint and clearly stating what is required of the breeder to prevent you making a county court claim.

 

 

It must be sent by signed for post with a time scale for the breeders response e.g. 14 days from the date on the LBA.

 

 

If you take this course you must be prepared to follow it through.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The Breeder is at fault a Letter before action is the next step you will need to be prepared to follow it through to court action.

[maroondevo52]

Three threads merged.

 

georeg&Albert please continue to post here regarding this issue, I have unapproved your duplicate threads.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[georeg&Albert]

Thank you so much for your response . I have already her sent a letter before court as she didnt reply to my intent letter before her 14 days are up, however just received a letter that simply stated she offered to refund me if i gave up the puppy which is totally out of the question as he is my family now and I will do everything i can for him

2nd point was to say she isn't a business just a hobby breeder

This is the thing i am not sure on, can i still take to small claims court?

 

I will go to CAB to get confirmed , but i have all my evidence against her as clinical notes clearly states murmur was picked up. The last health check she keeps referring to , doesn't even mention the heart. However i also need to mention she took him to a different vet for a heath check not the one that found the murmur.

[georeg&Albert]

i will let you all draw your own conclusion from that? why changed vets and names!!

Kennel club is aware but they wont be drawn. I have put in a claim to kennel club insurance , as end of the day i wasn't advised of any illness and breeder stated following claim on my 4 week insurance

“I agree to the terms of business and confirm that this puppy is healthy. I have provided full details to the kennel club pet insurance and to the new owner of any illnesses, injuries or signs of the puppy being unwell, prior to puppy being collected”

 

i have paid for his scans and will pay for his surgery but i don't see why breeders can get away with this !!!!

[ploddertom]

Can I suggest you look at http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/ and make contact as they will likely have some relevant information on health issues.

[ploddertom]

Their president may be the one to talk to http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org.uk/about-the-club.html . There are also many health articles listed and although it is a few years since I gave up the "dog scene" many breeds were introducing different schemes to avoid just mating dog & bitch with due regard to health issues by only using tested animals declared clear.

[georeg&Albert]

breeder is part of frenchbulldogclubofengland so not sure how helpful they will be. Probably wont be drawn as per the kennel club.

 

I am totally up to speed on his condition and it is heartbreaking.

 

surgery at end of month...

[georeg&Albert]

many thanks for the reply

[ploddertom]

I'm still a member of several clubs, anyone can join so don't be put off by that. Look further down their web page and you'll see 2 sections to with Health. Did the parents of your pup have Bronze or Silver Certificates?

[georeg&Albert]

Father had a bronze certificate, she got it done just after the records show puppy was diagnosed with heart murmur...she kept telling me father had passed and i Have copy in my puppy pack

But shows it means nothing!

[georeg&Albert]

no mention of mother though i do have a copy of puppy's clinical notes and mothers seems to be on there at the top...and all seems fine.

My baby was just very unlucky

[ploddertom]

The breed I was involved with also had heart problems but we were lucky in having a geneticist as a breeder who quickly put a program in hand to try and help curtail this. We used to have heart clinics at major shows attended by Animal Cardioligists. The reason I mention all this is because most pups under 12 months of age had a heart murmur of one sort or another and only those of Grade 3 or above were to be kept an eye on as to how it developed and if necessary sent for Doppler testing at the Royal Dick or similar. Many as they came into adulthood grew out of it.

 

Obviously I have no idea of your own pup but I would urge you to contact the person I mentioned previously as she will have a good understanding of your situation. Personally speaking I would look after the pup first and go after the breeder afterwards - although keep them up to speed on developments.

 

You mentioned the "breeder" is on the Assured Breeder Scheme at the KC. Some of the bigger "puppy farmers" in our area used to be on there as well because it is a paid for service that was never really policed, as long as the KC got their cash that was all they seemed to be interested in. Don't be taken in by the hype.

[georeg&Albert]

Does any one have any further info they feel would help me. As breeder offered purchase price refund and would take my puppy away do i know have no rights....cant believe they get away with it, they know any decent person wouldn't give a puppy back

[ericsbrother]

The courts can only put you back into the position you were in before you make your purchase so a refund on the price of the dog and probably initial vet consultation fee. As you have decided to keep the dog with all of its faults then you know what you have let yourself in for so you wont be getting any further expenses for what might happen in the future.

Decide which is important to you but be realistic if you cannot reach some agreement with the seller.

[Gemma.]

I really feel for you, I have a small puppy and would be devastated f anything happened to her. But, if the breeder has offered to take the pup back and refund you I wonder if the courts may think that a fair enough remedy? It seems a bit unrealistic to then expect the breeder to have to pay for the vets bills of thousands of pounds when it could be seen that it is you that has chosen that route? What if they can't pay?