Israel/Palestine conflict explained in 3 minutes

[unclebulgaria67]

Dangerous ground arguing about politics, particularly in this case.

 

It is possible to dislike a state in regard to the actual political stance or actions of its politicians. Netanyahu is a hard line right wing politician who is unlikely to sign up to a two state solution.

 

Israel does not like Gaza because of them electing Hamas. It is not to say that Israel dislikes all people that live in Gaza.

[fletch70]

First off I think anyone who tars all Muslims with the same brush is as bad as the worst terrorist. I do not believe that the Palestinian issue really has anything to do with Islamic state or other terrorist organisations.

I have often wondered what is the difference between people who fought with the International Brigade , or people who fought on the side of Israel in the six dat war or indeed people who have gone to Syria and fought against Assad.

I have to say that more harm is done in the name of religion than anything else yet don't Jews Christians and Muslims believe in the same god

 

As for disliking a state I think you are playing silly beggers by questioning that statement. You know full well what I mean, I dislike the way the governance of that area .

[Conniff]

Many years ago a persecuted people were given a piece of land, the most barren and useless piece of rock strewn land imaginable. Those people worked hard and toiled and worked that piece of land making it arable and then they planted crops and the country became inhabitable. Those people then made things and sold those things to the world and had factories and employment for the people so they never had to rely on other for a living.

 

 

A certain people of a country not a million miles away didn't have the skill or inclination to do the same with their land and so became very jealous of the rich country next door so they decided they wanted that land for themselves and vowed to destroy all the people in that rich land and take it for themselves. They ganged up on that country called Israel but were defeated and have sworn that they will destroy Israel and wipe it from the face of the planet.

 

 

The Palestine people elected a terrorist group called Hamas as their government and Hamas continued with the attempt to destroy Israel continually firing rockets into the country and digging massive tunnels so they could infiltrate undetected and murder innocent people.

 

 

Not a lot of damage or loss of life has been done by those rocket up until now as Israel has a defence system, but those rocket are getting more and more sophisticated and will take their toll eventually.

 

 

If someone threw bricks at your window daily, you would get fed up and eventually retaliate. This show the stupidity of Hamas in kicking someone far stronger than them up the bum and not expect to get a black eye.

 

 

Israel has done nothing to this world except defend it's people, they aren't the aggressor, they are 'retaliating to continued bullying and bombardment.

 

 

If you think they are the aggressor, please say how ?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Many years ago a persecuted people were given a piece of land, the most barren and useless piece of rock strewn land imaginable. Those people worked hard and toiled and worked that piece of land making it arable and then they planted crops and the country became inhabitable. Those people then made things and sold those things to the world and had factories and employment for the people so they never had to rely on other for a living.

 

 

 

A certain people of a country not a million miles away didn't have the skill or inclination to do the same with their land and so became very jealous of the rich country next door so they decided they wanted that land for themselves and vowed to destroy all the people in that rich land and take it for themselves. They ganged up on that country called Israel but were defeated and have sworn that they will destroy Israel and wipe it from the face of the planet.

 

 

The Palestine people elected a terrorist group called Hamas as their government and Hamas continued with the attempt to destroy Israel continually firing rockets into the country and digging massive tunnels so they could infiltrate undetected and murder innocent people.

 

 

Not a lot of damage or loss of life has been done by those rocket up until now as Israel has a defence system, but those rocket are getting more and more sophisticated and will take their toll eventually.

 

 

If someone threw bricks at your window daily, you would get fed up and eventually retaliate. This show the stupidity of Hamas in kicking someone far stronger than them up the bum and not expect to get a black eye.

 

 

Israel has done nothing to this world except defend it's people, they aren't the aggressor, they are 'retaliating to continued bullying and bombardment.

 

 

If you think they are the aggressor, please say how ?

 

 

Well said sir!!

 

 

The world of the Islamic fanatics should look very carefully at what happened in1976, it could be repeated!

 

 

I'm too old to if it does happen unfortunately.

[fletch70]

Sadly this just shows how difficult the situation is. Two opposing views and neither will give an inch.

[Conniff]

My views are not locked in, say why you feel the way you do so we can have something to help us see it from both sides ?

[fletch70]

It seems to me that the attacks on Israel are launched by a minority and the majority are bombarded by propaganda to which Israel only add by killing civilians . The average Palestinian seems to be radicalised partly by the way they are treated by Israel. Pro Israelis talk non stop about past statements from Arab leaders saying such things as we will never recognise Israel , many of these statements were made many many years ago and views change.

Israel stands against the UN in many ways n their treatment of the Palestianians

 

On top of that you get some Jews who believe they are the chosen race and have a god given right to that land against Muslims who are in my understanding sworn to convert the rest of us (this is where some of the misrepresentation comes about Holy War) and people like me who think that religion is a direct cause of most of the hurt and evil in the world today .

 

People talk frequently about immigrant communities (often Muslim) who ghettoise themselves but some Jews do exactly the same . Without integration we will never move forward. I have friends of all creeds and colours , I have even been into a Church without it bursting into flame . I am just very very anti organised religion . I am not sure others are quite as open minded as you conniff

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There is no "Holy War" or as it was in the past " Crusade".

 

 

The fight/conflict is about an enormous number of people who wish to enforce their twisted take on Islamic Law and the Koran.

 

 

Children all over the world are being taught to hate everything and everybody who is not Muslim, evil yes, terrorists yes, innocent freedom fighters N0.

[unclebulgaria67]

It seems to me that the attacks on Israel are launched by a minority and the majority are bombarded by propaganda to which Israel only add by killing civilians . The average Palestinian seems to be radicalised partly by the way they are treated by Israel. Pro Israelis talk non stop about past statements from Arab leaders saying such things as we will never recognise Israel , many of these statements were made many many years ago and views change.

Israel stands against the UN in many ways n their treatment of the Palestianians

 

On top of that you get some Jews who believe they are the chosen race and have a god given right to that land against Muslims who are in my understanding sworn to convert the rest of us (this is where some of the misrepresentation comes about Holy War) and people like me who think that religion is a direct cause of most of the hurt and evil in the world today .

 

People talk frequently about immigrant communities (often Muslim) who ghettoise themselves but some Jews do exactly the same . Without integration we will never move forward. I have friends of all creeds and colours , I have even been into a Church without it bursting into flame . I am just very very anti organised religion . I am not sure others are quite as open minded as you conniff

 

Yes, there is quite a lot in what you say.

 

I would add that if there were no religion used as an excuse to fuel wars, it would be something else. I just think that the Earth is a planet where wars will happen all the time and there is not much that can be done about it. It is hard wired into the DNA of humans and animals. It is about fighting for all the various things that are needed to be able to live, e.g shelter, food, water, security and money( humans). Both humans and animals will kill just because they can.

 

So if you accept that some will always want to fight wars, commit terrorist acts and kill others, just because they want to, it is then a question of what you can do about it. I think Israel went further with the recent actions in Gaza, because they wanted to send a message to the people there, that they need to get rid of Hamas. They may think that Palestinians will turn on Hamas and others who want to fire rockets into Israel, to get them to stop. But I cannot see this happening.

 

The UK government and others are going to have to spend a lot more money on defence, as there are a lot of arms out there and there is now much more knowledge of how to make sophisticated bombs. During the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, the enemies have been able learn how to create very powerful IED's. With modern communications, they can pass on training information about how to build bombs and they can organise themselves. There are also many weak states around the world, that can be taken over by terrorists.

 

The UK is thousands of miles away from the middle eastern trouble zones and we are still threatened by it. You really have to think about how Israelis and innocent Palestinians must feel, when they are in the middle of a hornets nest. This is why you have the level of security and actions taken. This is very unlikely to ever change. Even with a two state solution and slightly better peace, there will still be some who will never accept their sworn enemies living next door.

[Conniff]

"They may think that Palestinians will turn on Hamas and others who want to fire rockets into Israel, to get them to stop. But I cannot see this happening"

 

 

That makes them, the people, as guilty as those doing the deadly deeds.

[unclebulgaria67]

"They may think that Palestinians will turn on Hamas and others who want to fire rockets into Israel, to get them to stop. But I cannot see this happening"

 

 

That makes them, the people, as guilty as those doing the deadly deeds.

 

Not all Germans agreed with the Nazis. My Dad was based in Germany in the British army after WW2, when it was divided into different zones. He said that many of the German people said they just had to go along with who was running the country at the time. They did as they were told or they were shot.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

"They may think that Palestinians will turn on Hamas and others who want to fire rockets into Israel, to get them to stop. But I cannot see this happening"

 

 

That makes them, the people, as guilty as those doing the deadly deeds.

 

 

It was an allegedly free/democratic vote that put Hamas in government, the people must live with the consequences of their vote, as you say Coniff guilty as charged.

[fletch70]

Can some people not see that there are faults on both sides. Maybe Hamas are not the right government for the Palestinians but do they have a viable alternative? If the Palestinians are feeling bullied by Israel will they want to just roll over , I would suggest that no they won't just as Israel will not give in.

 

Brigadier , it is quite obvious that you are very very anti Muslim and I do find the attitude abhorrent. Yes there are children being taught about extremism but that can be said for Jewish children in Israel, Christian children in the U.S. children in China, children in Russia and the Ukraine .

 

Many many Muslims are peace loving people who deserve respect and to be left in peace and not tarred as terrorists . If I were Muslim I am not sure I would want to admit it with the attitudes that seem to prevail

[Conniff]

Palestine is not being bullied by Israel. Israel is 'retaliating' to bullying from Hamas.

 

 

There was piece in the land, Israel had a surplus of work and the Palestinians would come across the border and work and take home a paypacket each Friday, then came Hamas.

 

 

Hamas started building tunnels, huge tunnels, concrete lined tunnels with ventilation and lighting, tunnels big enough to take an army troop. Hamas started to discharged weapons in the direction of Israel, so Israel did a search for the import path of these weapons and the huge amounts of cement needed to build these tunnels.

They found they were coming in by sea, weapons and cement by the shipload, so Israel put a blockade on and searched all the shipping entering Palastinian waters, but still the aggression increased so they closed a lot of their border which affected Palestinians crossing to work.

 

 

During the six day war, Israel took the Golan Heights as that was where the Syrian and Egyptian army had set up artillery batteries that could reach far into Israel, they also set up listening and watching posts up there, so when the war ended, Israel refused to return such a strategic gold mine back to them. The Palestines are now using the Golan Heights as their excuse to fire rockets into Israel even though Palestine had never used the Golan Heights.

 

 

I am sorry for the innocent women and children that die when Israel get fed up with being kicked in the teeth and 'retaliates', we must remember that innocents on the Israeli side are being killed as well, innocents that are being called up to defend their land.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Can some people not see that there are faults on both sides. Maybe Hamas are not the right government for the Palestinians but do they have a viable alternative? If the Palestinians are feeling bullied by Israel will they want to just roll over , I would suggest that no they won't just as Israel will not give in.

 

Brigadier , it is quite obvious that you are very very anti Muslim and I do find the attitude abhorrent. Yes there are children being taught about extremism but that can be said for Jewish children in Israel, Christian children in the U.S. children in China, children in Russia and the Ukraine .

 

Many many Muslims are peace loving people who deserve respect and to be left in peace and not tarred as terrorists . If I were Muslim I am not sure I would want to admit it with the attitudes that seem to prevail[/quote

 

 

I find your comments insulting, and childish and probably racist.

 

 

Where is your proof a of your claim that Jewish children are " being taught about extremism"?

 

 

When have you seen Jewish children being taught to uses weapons at the age of 5?

 

 

I am not anti Muslim, having spent sometime in Israel very recently for a celebration of New Year which my the way was attended by many Israeli Arabs who I consider loyal friends.

 

 

Your attitude is that of s person who grossly misunderstands what is happening now world wide where Islam has gone rotten to the core and totally evil.

[unclebulgaria67]

I don't take sides in this, but until both sides stop doing things which annoy the other, they are never going to be able to live side by side. Israel broke international law when they used disproportionate action in Gaza recently, but they know that because they have US backing, nothing will be done. But I can see if from the Israeli point of view that they are having to put up with their citizens being subject to rocket attacks on a regular basis and they have to react. If the UK was being attacked, we would expect a UK government to do something about it.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I don't take sides in this, but until both sides stop doing things which annoy the other, they are never going to be able to live side by side. Israel broke international law when they used disproportionate action in Gaza recently, but they know that because they have US backing, nothing will be done. But I can see if from the Israeli point of view that they are having to put up with their citizens being subject to rocket attacks on a regular basis and they have to react. If the UK was being attacked, we would expect a UK government to do something about it.

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Quite so Uncle B Israel is not the aggressor it has a duty to its people Jewish, Muslim, Arab, and Christian in fact all religious denominations and races living within its borders

to defend and protect them.

[fletch70]

I do not think that Uncle B has said that Israel are not the aggressor,using disproportionate force is aggression as was the 6 day war although i am sure many people will believe they were justified because of the perceived threat.

If the UK were being attacked i would of course want it defending but in a proportionate way.

 

My comments about extremism are most certainly not racist. If Jewish children are being taught the zionis t view many people including many Jews would call that extreme just as the likes if westboro Baptist church are extremist.

 

The fact Hamas has a majority does not mean all Palestinians voted for them,its like saying all Germans were NAZI or all south Af

ricans supported apartheid.

It is the minority of Muslims who back terrorism and yes that needs addressing but it is not everyone and certainly not all Palestinians.

As said until the two sides stop the aggression and talk nothing will happen and if an individual launches a rocket attack we should not assume it is backed by Hamas .

[unclebulgaria67]

I do not think that Uncle B has said that Israel are not the aggressor,using disproportionate force is aggression as was the 6 day war although i am sure many people will believe they were justified because of the perceived threat.

If the UK were being attacked i would of course want it defending but in a proportionate way.

 

My comments about extremism are most certainly not racist. If Jewish children are being taught the zionis t view many people including many Jews would call that extreme just as the likes if westboro Baptist church are extremist.

 

The fact Hamas has a majority does not mean all Palestinians voted for them,its like saying all Germans were NAZI or all south Af

ricans supported apartheid.

It is the minority of Muslims who back terrorism and yes that needs addressing but it is not everyone and certainly not all Palestinians.

As said until the two sides stop the aggression and talk nothing will happen and if an individual launches a rocket attack we should not assume it is backed by Hamas .

 

I don't think Israel/Palestine living together in peace will happen during my life time, which may be say 30 years into the future. It could well get a lot worse, with a major middle east war at some point.

 

Defender or aggressor will depend on what side you take. There is no point having an argument on here as that would be a waste of time. People have made up their minds and will not move from their position. I am neutral on it, as I can see if from both sides. There are innocent people trying to live on both sides of the fence. Perhaps if both sides concentrated on looking after the innocent, they might get somewhere.

[Conniff]

I'm sorry fletch but you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

 

As this thread has now degraded into accusations of racism, it's time to close it.

 

 

Sorry Folks

 

 

Conniff