Tories discuss stripping benefits claimants who refuse treatment

[fletch70]

CBT. can and does work but do not expect any quick fix. The person you husband saw will have been the assessor and not a therapist. One problem i believe is that in my area certainly it is target driven so it is all about improved scores as opposed what is best for the patient.

It does work though

[estellyn]

CBT. can and does work but do not expect any quick fix. The person you husband saw will have been the assessor and not a therapist. One problem i believe is that in my area certainly it is target driven so it is all about improved scores as opposed what is best for the patient.

It does work though

 

 

Yes, husband had cbt before, quite a few years ago, and it worked then, but he had a specific goal he was working towards (being able to leave the house), and I think it's very good for a few specific goals to help change thinking patterns and overcome fears. However, I'm not sure it's right for more severe cases, but time will tell.

[Nystagmite]

If this did go ahead, would DWP and whoever is planning on doing the therapy, really have time to contact the claimants GP and anyone else involved in their care, to see what they've already had done, are waiting for, etc?

[estellyn]

If this did go ahead, would DWP and whoever is planning on doing the therapy, really have time to contact the claimants GP and anyone else involved in their care, to see what they've already had done, are waiting for, etc?

 

I really don't think they've thought through the logistics of the scheme.

[Lilly_Monroe]

If this did go ahead, would DWP and whoever is planning on doing the therapy, really have time to contact the claimants GP and anyone else involved in their care, to see what they've already had done, are waiting for, etc?

 

Would they even bother - after all they did not bother to contact GP's about other health issues, so why would they treat this any different.

 

Depends on who they are really going to target, if it is those who have not sought treatment then there is no GP or whatever to contact.

The ESA form asks for names, and contact details of any MH specialists you are seeing, so if that is blank I guess they will be their target, (to start with)!

[Lilly_Monroe]

Yes, husband had cbt before, quite a few years ago, and it worked then, but he had a specific goal he was working towards (being able to leave the house), and I think it's very good for a few specific goals to help change thinking patterns and overcome fears. However, I'm not sure it's right for more severe cases, but time will tell.

 

I found CBT to challenging for me at the time I was prescribed it.

It put far too much pressure on me.

I could see the theory/objectives behind it, but it stressed me out and made my thoughts even more rapid.

 

I think it might be good for those who have reached a plateau in their illness and want to take the next step.

[worried33]

if the idea is to have the NHS and DWP work together so people on ESA get targeted treatment, then it has merits. How did such an idea end up been reported as enforced treatment tho?

 

Also this is only for mental health, should it be for physical as well?

[dyfed]

if the idea is to have the NHS and DWP work together so people on ESA get targeted treatment, then it has merits. How did such an idea end up been reported as enforced treatment tho?

 

Also this is only for mental health, should it be for physical as well?

 

Firstly the waiting list for CBT can be like six months or more. Mental health is the cinderella service with the majority of individuals parked on inncorrect medication and no other help.

Also will this new therapy or no benefits be to the standard that it will help people or will it just be a six week course then goodbye ESA, hello JSA?

 

Second. This is all about cutting the amount spent on benefits and as the article in the Sunday Telegraph explains the majority of ESA claimants suffer with MH issues.

[worried33]

obviously, but if someone is off benefits because they have got better that's not a bad thing.

 

I have issues when people are forced off whilst they are still ill.

[Nystagmite]

 

Also this is only for mental health, should it be for physical as well?

 

In one way, I would welcome this. I am not being taken seriously at all regarding my physical issues...

[fletch70]

It is all well and good saying that you must have treatment for your MH condition but who decides what treatment you need and who is going to fund it. Does some untrained person from the job centre or work provider decide that you need ECT or is it down to a medical professional.

On a physical condition , if someone can not walk because of say bad knees who is going to pay for the knee replacement or could some jobsworth say well lets amputate and with a false leg you will be able to walk. You may laugh but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

It is a headline grabbing stunt which on the face of it makes complete sense but I do not know anyone who doesn't want treatment to get better

[antone]

 

It is a headline grabbing stunt which on the face of it makes complete sense but I do not know anyone who doesn't want treatment to get better

 

This last point is key - the idea that there are loads of mentally ill people who are avoiding treatment because they don't want to get better is absurd on its face.

 

Now, I understand that one of the ministers involved has denied that the scheme will include a threat for noncompliance, and so that's good, if true. I have no problem with making more and better mental health care available in principle. Of course, I have no idea if what is being proposed will actually help anyone.

[worried33]

In one way, I would welcome this. I am not being taken seriously at all regarding my physical issues...

 

likewise. I have had WCA doctors give me more sympathy than recent NHS doctors have given me.

[dyfed]

obviously, but if someone is off benefits because they have got better that's not a bad thing.

 

I have issues when people are forced off whilst they are still ill.

 

Yes I agree that its not a bad thing but only if the individual is fully able and ready to seek employment. My fear is that individuals will not be given the time and space to prepare themselves for the world of work and will end up being ill again. Its got to be done holistically and person centred.

[worried33]

obviously yes.

[unclebulgaria67]

IDS the 'quiet man' who turned into a Dalek and you know what their catchphrase is !

 

Most of the main political parties are getting it wrong in terms of DWP spending. The biggest area of spending by far is on pensions, but because of the 'grey vote', they won't touch them. Yes they have paid into the system, but many have been able to retire at 60 or 65, have been able to buy houses when they were affordable and are living to a standard that most under 40 could only dream of. Most people under 40 will never be able to retire.

 

If the argument put forward is that you cannot blame people for when they were born, this is the same whether it was 1945 or 1995. If governments are interested in ensuring fairness between generations, they need to consider policies that might not be popular with some.

[worried33]

The paying into the system in reality has nothing to do with it, there is people on working age benefits who have done the same. Its your first bit that has hit the nail, its the grey vote. That's what matters to them, their political careers.

 

Looking at how things have been changed they dividing generations quite clearly.

Younger people are treated harder on JSA, the one bed room rate on HB was 25, and is now 35. I think in 10 years it will be changed to 45, to match the generation growing older. 10 years after that 55 and so on.

Changes to retirement age, pensions etc. all designed to affect younger people only.

People I know around me have started feeling hostile to pensioner policies, slowly people are catching on with all the excemptions been given out.

[Conniff]

There is absolutely no reason to feel hostile to pensioners in fact it is one of the silliest things ever said.

 

 

God willing you will be a pensioner at some time in the future

[estellyn]

There is absolutely no reason to feel hostile to pensioners in fact it is one of the silliest things ever said.

 

 

God willing you will be a pensioner at some time in the future

 

 

He said pensioner policies not pensioners - read things correctly before you get on your soapbox!

[Conniff]

He said pensioner policies not pensioners - read things correctly before you get on your soapbox!

 

 

 

And pensioner policies are aimed at pensioners, another silly post.

[unclebulgaria67]

And pensioner policies are aimed at pensioners, another silly post.

 

It is debate politicians needs to have about how they can be fair to all generations. It is not about pensioners, but trying to get to a situation where the majority are comfortable with the way government policies are supporting all generations. Many older people are not happy that they have done so well in comparison to their children and grandchildren.

 

I am not sure how this can be achieved, but some things may help. University tuition fees could be scrapped or reduced and this would remove a debt worry to the students and their parents. Government could subsidise the building of affordable homes to buy and rent. Things like the winter fuel alllowance could be means tested if this was economic to do.

 

So it is not a silly debate and people should not feel threatened by it.

[Conniff]

I did say post not thread or debate.

 

 

University is about job training and not education, why should we pay for job training that will benefit the student and not the taxpayer.

[fletch70]

I have to agree that pensioner policies and pensioners are two different things.

 

Many pensioners I know feel it is stupid that they get the winter fuel payment or free TV licences or free bus travel but are happy to accept it. In fact I know some that give the winter fuel allowance to charity.

 

Why should pensioners get free NHS prescriptions , OK I know that on balance they need more medication but maybe a flat rate for however many items .

 

People feel that we owe pensioners a debt. I am afraid there are less and less that can say "we fought to give you your freedoms" . No one is owed anything just because of their age , we owe people respect dignity care etc because they have earned it or are in need

 

Conniff, do you dislike all immigrants or just the immigration policies of this country?

[Conniff]

Conniff, do you dislike all immigrants or just the immigration policies of this country?

 

 

What the hell has immigration got to do with it ??

[unclebulgaria67]

I did say post not thread or debate.

 

 

University is about job training and not education, why should we pay for job training that will benefit the student and not the taxpayer.

 

People are just not happy paying into a community system, where governments decide how to spend the money. We all grumble about it.

 

It was not a silly post. Governments make decisions all the time about how they slice up the pie, depending on what/who they want to support. In my opinion, both Labour and Tories have made this too political. They need to take a step back and take a look at it from a fairness point of view. The risk of not doing so, is to end up with a deeply divisive society, that few are happy with.