Can a "union" rep elect themselves ??

[rupert9bear]

At work our main union has elected reps, that are voted for each year by the workforce

 

 

There is a minority union that has around 5% of the workforce and they have a union rep that has elected themselves to represent the few people in his union (not elected or voted for by anyone , he just does it as he used to be a union rep) and another person that has elected themselves as there health and safety rep

 

Now can these two turn up at staff side/management meetings and claim to reps of the "workforce" even though nobody has ever voted for them or elected them ??

[SabreSheep]

The procedure for electing union representatives are normally laid out in their "Union Rule Book"

 

How do you know they were not elected?

 

In my old union, when election time comes, a poster goes up for nominations that require a proposer and seconder

 

If noone stands against them and or other nominees fail the requirements (EG membership in union etc) then they would be deemed elected unanimously as no ballot would be required.

[rebel11]

Hi rupert9bear

 

It's not very democratic, also is there a 'Rule Book', E.G. http://www.unitetheunion.org/about_us/structure/unite_the_union_rule_book.aspx,

Read 'Rule 18', to the best of my knowledge, they need to be elected.

[SabreSheep]

Be careful about saying they were not elected.

 

How do you know they were not elected?

[SteveH2508]

If they had a quorate AGM and there were no other nominations then most likely - Yes - they are duly elected (subject to their particular Union's rule book).

 

Is their Union recognised by management under a recognition agreement? Just a thought...

[SabreSheep]

AGM? That sounds like branch officers as opposed to union representatives.

 

OP are you a manager?

[Atlas01]

union name = you get a clear answer

[rebel11]

Maybe because the OP and others weren't given a vote.

 

Be careful about saying they were not elected.

 

How do you know they were not elected?

[Consumer dude]

At work our main union has elected reps, that are voted for each year by the workforce

 

 

There is a minority union that has around 5% of the workforce and they have a union rep that has elected themselves to represent the few people in his union (not elected or voted for by anyone , he just does it as he used to be a union rep) and another person that has elected themselves as there health and safety rep

 

Now can these two turn up at staff side/management meetings and claim to reps of the "workforce" even though nobody has ever voted for them or elected them ??

 

Yes, the coalition have done it and then there is the monarchy..

[SabreSheep]

Maybe the Op is not in the minority union?

[rebel11]

He's in the 'workforce'.

 

Maybe the Op is not in the minority union?

[SabreSheep]

yup but workforce is split between 2 unions

 

Only union A members elect reps for Union A

Only Union B members elect reps for Union B

 

Does OP belong to the union he is complaining about?

[obiter dictum]

Are we talking of an elected Certificated Trade Union Representitve or a Work Place Committee Rep.

 

i am confused, you have to have a minimum of 10% of the workforce for collective bargaining purposes to be recognised and certificated as a Trade Union. You mention only 5%. What then is stopping the employer from derecognising that Trade union??

[SabreSheep]

Does derecognising a trade union prevent their members electing a representative?

 

Plus there is some benefit to having a voluntary agreement with the "minority union"

 

By doing so their reps will be able to take part in the disciplinary and grievance procedures and allows the reps to be form the same company. Outside of that agreement the union representative is more likely to be brought in and be a full time paid official. This causes extra burdens on the employer in setting times etc. Easier ot have a rep on hand to deal with things.

 

Would be better though for you all to join the same union LOL

[SabreSheep]

Thought this sounded familiar

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?424330-Can-a-union-refuse-to-help&p=4533200#post4533200

[SabreSheep]

OK so the problem is even more complex by the fact the "workforce" is spread over different sites.

 

This could be complicated. Recognition agreements cover whats called a "bargaining unit" which can be set in different ways. Some use the whole company, others use geographical locations, some use sites. It varies depending on size and structure of the company.

 

To be fair, you might want to start attending your Branch meetings if you do not do so already and start making noises about how to get co-operation with the other union. If across the company it is a 50/50 split then it should be mutually beneficial to start co-operating.

 

Unions can be sometimes quite separated form their members. Normally the best way to bring around change is to participate more. Unions have to have a democratic structure and a rule book governing how they are run. If more members attend branch meetings, then the members can instruct their representatives in a clearer manner and mandate things at a branch level. That way if you think your members are too cosey to management you can quiz them on it in minuted meetings. If they do not represent you you can organise votes of no confidence and remove them.

 

Democracy fails when the people do not take part. (Familiar story to our current government maybe)

 

When I was Branch Chair of my local branch one thing I pushed was to make the meetings as open as possible. I made sure ALL members covered by my branch were aware of when meetings were and where and expressed interest in having any of our union members attend. (which as our branch was a mufti-company geographical one covering a reasonably large city was no easy task)

[obiter dictum]

Having two Trade Unions Recognised in one industry is a bad idea unless one is front front line staff and the other is for management grade as an example.

[SabreSheep]

Generally yes, but as pointed out above there are advantages and it depends on how the bargaining units were set

 

In some large companies different depots have their own recognition agreements including one very large supermarket

 

And actually it can work in the employers favour. 2 unions squabbling amongst each other, splitting the "vote"

 

Untied they stand, devided they fall

[rupert9bear]

Thank you for all the replies

 

Each year in my organisation there is a ballot to elect reps , both union and Health and safety

 

The Minority union have no reps that have been elected by the workforce but there senior shop steward has "elected" some one to represent there Union and done the same with health a safety rep .....neither of these have been elected by anyone in the workforce in my workplace....and the "union rep" that was chosen to be a "rep" when asked why he is turning up at staff side /management meetings instantly accuses anyone who questions it of racisim

[obiter dictum]

The election of office IR or H&S reps will be in the Branch standing orders. Positions have to be advertised and nominations given as to reps, Normally every 12 months but every 2 years is common now. The Trade Union can be struck off and have their Accrediation removed as to recognotion within the business by the CAC

[SabreSheep]

OK so not your not in the union that your complaining about.

Really then its none of your business sadly and you have no grounds for complaint.

 

You have not told us how you know that the reps "elected themselves" nor would you nessasaily be notified if they were having an electionl Simply from what you have stated here you are not in the position to say they have or have not been elected.

 

If it is a small number of workers then how do you know they were not invited to one of their branch meetings, or contacted via postal means. You are also not aware of what it says in their rule book as to promotion. If for example nominations were requested and no others forthcoming then those persons have been elected "UN-opposed"

 

*IF* that unions members are unhappy with the situation then they should lodge a complaint with their union formally. However if no-one stands against them then there is no grounds of complaint unless they behave in a manner that breaches the rule book.

 

It sounds like you do not agree with these people being reps and that this is personal. Unless they behave in a way that brings their union or the company into disrepute there is nothing you can do about it.

[Brenty]

I think this whole debate goes a long way to prove the irrelevance of Unions in the 21st Century. If we are working in a clothing factory in Bangladesh, or as Coal Miners in 1930 then Unions played a very important and necessary role. But now, hmmm. Just Google the RMT Tube workers strike where people on 45k a year are moaning that people who've asked for redundancy are not allowed to take it because a Union that less than 23% of workers belong to have said they can't and strike, holding the whole of London to ransom.

 

I'd have more interest in Union barons in the modern age if they didn't all seem to come from Liverpool (which in itself has a proud history of victimhood). But when less than 10% of people balloted can lead to a strike then the clock is ticking with the private sector worker and general public really finding Unions relevant.

 

(Apologies, SabreSheep - I've read you probably have a dog in this fight, so feel free to get my post deleted, lol. Whoever said Unions were up for democracy or free speech anyway? Just look at Ed Miliband being Len McKlusky's little bitch

[SabreSheep]

Brenty I have no dog in this fight. You will notice my union connections are "former"

 

Nor do I believe that unions have no purpose to play. But I respect your opinion and will let others debate the merits of union membership on an appropriate thread. This is remember a thread to answer a question posed by the OP

[Brenty]

Brenty I have no dog in this fight. You will notice my union connections are "former"

 

Nor do I believe that unions have no purpose to play. But I respect your opinion and will let others debate the merits of union membership on an appropriate thread. This is remember a thread to answer a question posed by the OP

 

Yep. Sorry, I was forgetting myself. I've had a particularly bad day and was looking to get a bit cheap and snarly.

 

I've got no issues with unions. I've got an issue with the victimhood going on in society right now as soon as something doesn't go our way.

 

It's my issue though, so apologies for drinking and posting.

 

Be well,

 

Brenty x

[obiter dictum]

I am of the opinion we need more people to join a Trade Union, This government is anti Trade Union and Anti employment rights. They are needed more then ever to stop the systamatic exploitation of employees. Zero hour contracts as an example.

 

The other benefit is free legal advice. A handy thing to have now after the legal aid budget has ben cut, not to mention the fees to claim at an employment Tribunal. Try paying that on minimum wage