A so called friend owes me money

[Boilerman]

Hi All, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

I am a trader at shows around the country, four years ago, I befriended a guy who was down on his luck, and offered to put him up for a few months, after this he moved out, however a few months later he was back again, after a few more months he suggested that he put a small cabin on our patio to use when he wasn't attending events as a place to "lay his head".

 

 

after much deliberation with my wife I agreed but pointed out that it was a temporary arrangement until such times as he got himslef sorted out. well four years on the guy became somewhat of a bully and suggested we should make this and that changes to our home and land, we certainly resisted, however we became very scarred to oppose him as he has a very strong character.

 

 

The financial arrangement, sugessted by him, was that he pay me £50/week in arrears for the privalage of using mu patio to site the small cabin, it turned out to be huge!!, and one third of the electricity used on a quarterly basis when the bill arrived, anyway, he started to miss these so called goodwill payments, and in 2013 was in debt to for £1000, I did suggest on a number of occasions that he settle, however the debt grew during the months to May 1st when he left owing me some £3000, he has now contacted a solicitor with a view to recovering stock and some other goods left at our property,

 

 

he is also claiming Propriety Estoppel on my patio ( we've poo poo'd this as utter rubbish), his solicitor is also claiming that as the payments made were "goodwill payments" there is no debt, ..I have written to him on the 1 st may requesting that he roemove his goods and chattels by 30 june at which time or sometime thereafter the goods will be sold at auction to realise the debt, his solicitor is saying we cannot do that, as it is theft. in the second solilictor's letter he is contradicting most of the things he said in the first letter,, I have all the correspondance and can post it here when/if neccesary.

 

We have loads of evidence to prove he not telling the truth. wonder, initially should we stand our ground or give in?

 

kindrst regards to all who read this

 

Ken

Edited June 13, 2014 by Conniff

[rebel11]

Hi Boilerman

 

Here's some info:- http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/04/27/landlord-rights-over-tenants-possessions/

 

You need to put some spaces in, to create paragraphs, it's difficult to read.

[Conniff]

You need to get a ccj against him as soon as possible. Unfortunately you cannot touch his goods and chattels or retain them in lieu of rent.

 

 

Send him a letter before action claiming the owed rent and get the ball rolling, time isn't on your side.

[SabreSheep]

If its been there for 4 years And hes been living in it then is it still considered a temporary structure?

 

Wondering IF it breaches local planning regs and if it does can u evict him on grounds that you have to in order to comply with statuary regulations

[Boilerman]

If its been there for 4 years And hes been living in it then is it still considered a temporary structure?

 

Wondering IF it breaches local planning regs and if it does can u evict him on grounds that you have to in order to comply with statuary regulations

 

Fortunately we took the advice of a friend and informed the local authority ourselves, they visited him when we wern't there, and told him he could not live in it and he should take evrything out that effectively makes it a dwelling, i.e. bed, kitchen appliances etc. and that they would return to check when it had been done. He then decided to set up home in our conservatory without our consent, then after the second visit he put it all back again. and continued to use it as temporary dwelling between shows.

[Boilerman]

here are rhe letters from solicitor and our repy thus far;[ATTACH=CONFIG]51575[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51576[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51577[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51578[/ATTACH]

[citizenB]

Boilerman, you need to convert your letters to pdf files and then post them up. Jpegs are very tiny.

[Boilerman]

[ATTACH]51594[/ATTACH]

Boilerman, you need to convert your letters to pdf files and then post them up. Jpegs are very tiny.

 

Hello CitizenB,

 

Please find attached PDFs hope these are more readable [ATTACH]51597[/ATTACH][ATTACH]51599[/ATTACH][ATTACH]51598[/ATTACH]

Edited June 15, 2014 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Much better - I will try and find someone who might be able to help.

[Boilerman]

Much better - I will try and find someone who might be able to help.

 

Thank you

 

Ken

[citizenB]

The guys I have sent S.O.S to might not be around until later today/early tomorrow..

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

: barbarajudkins@fraserdawbarns.com

seems to be a woman solicitor:-

 

 

A pretty good reputation also members of the Forces Law Network.

[Old Cogger]

A pretty good reputation also members of the Forces Law Network.

 

o.k. ah Norfolk! !

[dx100uk]

attachments unapproved

 

pers info and email ad's showing

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

o.k.

High profile (recent Iraq "murder case").

[Boilerman]

The guys I have sent S.O.S to might not be around until later today/early tomorrow..

 

Thanks for the help, I'm not panicking at the moment, I think that at the end of the day, they will give up, they have no evidence whatsoever, whereas I have bucket loads, with text messages that have been transcribed, and witness statements, that I'll use as a trump card should it get to court, which I doubt will happen

 

Regards

 

Ken

[Boilerman]

attachments unapproved

 

pers info and email ad's showing

 

dx

 

Duly edited, thanks

 

Ken

[steampowered]

I don't understand why he would contact a solicitor about getting the goods back, if you are asking him to collect the goods anyway? Can you explain this - are you refusing to let him collect until he pays the debt?

 

If you want to sell the goods you need to serve a proper written notice headed Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, containing all the details mentioned in the legislation I am linking to you. Review http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/section/12 and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/schedule/1.

[stu007]

Squatting and the Law: https://www.gov.uk/squatting-law

[Boilerman]

Squatting and the Law: https://www.gov.uk/squatting-law

 

Hi Stu and thanks for the link, not sure if he can be classed as a squatter, the crux of the matter here I believe is that this guy abused my hospitality, and now is unwilling to pay moneies he owes by way of electricty charges and for the inconvenience of siting a cabin on my patio, also none paymet of telephone charges..

 

I have given the guy 60 days to remove his stock from my land, this notice expires 30 June, he has since informed his solicitor that he wants everything from this cabin, however we have written evidence that he passed ownership of the cabin and it's contents to me the reason being, I believ, is that the cost of remove the structure would be and amount in the region of £700 +VAT.

 

As far as Propriety Estoppel is concern I am not concerned about as it will be impoosible for him to prove in a court of law, as it was made absolutily clear that it was purly a temporary arrangement. Also he left of his own free will, and has to date, not returned.

 

The stumbling block for me, is the disposal of this so called stock, a) he has passed ownership of the cabin and it;s contents to me, b) I have given 60 days notice to collect the cabin and the stock before he passed ownership.

 

I have evidence that he is not tellig the full and truthful facts to his solicitor; for example, the mobile phone is in my name, although he is the sole user of it, he says in a statement to his solicitor that the bill hasn't been paid for three month and he knows this because he contatcted the service provider, this he can't do as any detals from the account will only be discussed with the account holder and there is a "magic word" that needs to be given that only I know, in addition I have the receipts and invoices from the service provider that shows that it has been paid.

 

Regards

 

Ken

[Boilerman]

I don't understand why he would contact a solicitor about getting the goods back, if you are asking him to collect the goods anyway? Can you explain this - are you refusing to let him collect until he pays the debt?

 

If you want to sell the goods you need to serve a proper written notice headed Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, containing all the details mentioned in the legislation I am linking to you. Review http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/section/12 and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/schedule/1.

 

 

Hi Steampowered, We have given him 60 days to collect goods or they will be disposed of at action, as he wasn't a tenent, either as a "Live in domestic" or a business user, I'm unsure as to weither TORTS applies, some clarification on these points would be helpful

 

Regards

 

Ken

[*RainbowTears*]

Whilst I can't offer you any legal help with your ongoing situation, I did want to say that I think you are a very kind person who tried to help out another who was in dire straits.

 

I'm so sorry that your acts of kindness & generosity have led you to where you are today!!

 

I too do help out where I can, be it providing a bed/food/money etc & sometimes I've been taken advantage off, but it hasn't put me off (so far) as someone done me an enormous favour when I was 16. I could never repay it, so instead in my own way I've repaid it by helping others out!

 

So I think it's very admirable for what you tried to do for this person.

 

Good luck & I hope your current situation is sorted out favourably for you!!

[steampowered]

I am still not sure I quite understand why there is a dispute if he wants to take the cabin/contents and you want him to take them. I also don't understand the dispute about the mobile phone.

 

Anyway, to answer your question, yes this situation is covered by the legislation I linked to you. If you want to sell the goods you must follow the proper procedures, otherwise you will be open to legal challenge. Specifically Schedule I, Part II. The key points are that your notice must:

(a)specify the name and address of the bailee, and give sufficient particulars of the goods and the address or place where they are held, and

(b)specify the date on or after which the bailee proposes to sell the goods,

The notice shall be in writing and shall be sent by post in a registered letter, or by the recorded delivery service.

 

The key point for you is that the notice must be in the form of a posted letter and it must contain points a+b above. If it was in the form of an email or something similar then you haven't complied with the Act and will have to re-serve your notice.

 

If you are trying to charge him any storage fees etc. then you will need to specify the amount which became due before the giving of the notice and will need to give not less than 3 months' notice.

[Boilerman]

Hi Steampowered,

 

Just for clairication, it says in the schedule that notice should sent to the last known address, in these circumstances the last known address was the cabin that is situated on my patio, as far as we can gather with enquiries made he is presently of no fixed abode, so would I be correct in sending the notice and/or court papers to this last known address, in the hope that he has instructed royal mail to forward to another address?

 

Regards

 

Ken

[Boilerman]

Thanks for your encouragement rainbowtears