Probate

[sonway]

anyone clue up on probate? we have a massive family issue at the moment with a lump of money that has been split between some family members and not others. If anyone is clued up i will explain further.

 

Thanks

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, is there a will specifying beneficiaries?

Are the "other family members " suggesting that the money has been improperly distributed by the executor (s)?

[sonway]

Its a long story but here goes....

My husband has two sisters, one of them lived with grandparents and her and the grandparents had a mortgage on their house. (we are not sure if the mortgage was paid joint by the grandparents and the sister or 3 ways by each grandparent and the sister) when both grandparents passed away my husbands sister continued living in the house, she has now sold this to the local council for 47k and split the proceeds of the sale between herself and my husbands other sister, with no money going to the grandparents daughter (she is the only living next of kin).

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It seems that the grandparents daughter would have a claim here it would need a solicitor to unravel the rights of each relative to a share of the proceeds of the sale.

 

 

I take it there is no will or even a letter of intention showing how the grandparents wanted the estate distributed?

[sonway]

No will found unfortunately or any indicator of intention either They are happily spending their inheritance as we speak.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No will found unfortunately or any indicator of intention either They are happily spending their inheritance as we speak.

This would be costly to contest imo, but if the grandparents daughter was financially dependent on her parents there is a clear entitlement to benefit from the proceeds of the sale.

 

 

The difficulty I see is proving/disproving that the sister contributed to the mortgage formally or just by paying rent.

[sonway]

The sister was named on the mortgage, also the grandparents daughter (not financially dependent on grandparents) was told by the grandparents that when anything happened to them she would be sorted out with money by the grandaughter.

[fletch70]

Hi

Indeed not only will in depend on the will of the grandparents but on the ownership. I am afraid that the way the mortgage repayments were divided is no real indication as to who owns what.

 

If everything was left to your sister in law then however she decides to divide the money is up to her.

 

If she has given the money away to bring her assets down to below the £16 K needed for certain benefits she may well get caught out.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The sister was named on the mortgage, also the grandparents daughter (not financially dependent on grandparents) was told by the grandparents that when anything happened to them she would be sorted out with money by the granddaughter.

 

 

The grandparents daughter to be name on the mortgage is significant, and I think

she should seek qualified advice locally.

I don't see any mention of benefits being claimed, are they?

[sonway]

yes, benefits are claimed by both of my husbands sisters

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

yes, benefits are claimed by both of my husbands sisters

All will depend on the amount received in benefits, and the amount of the inheritance the DWP/LA I believe have to be told if an individual has more than 6K in savings and as said 16K maximum.

As said local legal advice would be best.

[steampowered]

Legally there are two types of co-ownership. There is a joint tenancy, where each co-owner has an equal right to the whole house. Under a joint tenancy, if one co-owner dies then the remaining co-owner owns the whole thing. In this case the house would not be subject to distribution on death. The other type is tenancy in common where each co-owner has a share of the house. Under a tenancy in common, if a co-owner dies their share would be distributed under a will or under the laws of intestacy.

 

You would need to identify whether the house was held as a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. If it was held as a TIC there should be a restriction entered on the land register ... and you can pay a pound to find out on the land registry website.

 

If the house was held as a JT, it belonged solely to this lady and she was entitled to do whatever she wanted with the sale proceeds. If it was held as a TIC and there was no will, the money should be split between the children equally (or their descendants - e.g. if one child has died, their share would be split between that child's children i.e. the grandchildren).

[fletch70]

Thank you steampowered . I knew there were different types of ownership. Will or not I would have thought the mortgage would have ensured letters of administration or probate would have been essential.

[sonway]

This is what i got from the land registry, if you need further info from it i can post it.

 

C: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters

that affect the land.

1 (13.04.1999) A Conveyance dated 26 June 1925 made between (1) The Monk

Bretton Colliery Company Limited and (2) The Mayor Aldermen and

Burgesses of the County Borough of Barnsley contains restrictive

covenants but neither the original deed nor a certified copy or

examined abstract thereof was produced on first registration.

2 (13.04.1999) A Conveyance of the land in this title dated 29 March 1999

made between (1) Barnsley Metropolitan Borough Council and (2) D

A, F A and A A contains restrictive

covenants.

[sonway]

I have deleted names so only initials are present, they are Mr DA, Mrs FA, Ms DA

[steampowered]

If it is a TIC, there should be a restriction entered under the proprietorship register as follows: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

 

If there is no such restriction, you are most likely looking at a joint tenancy.

 

There is a guide here: http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/guides/public-guide-18

[sonway]

B: Proprietorship Register

This register specifies the class of title and

identifies the owner. It contains any entries that

affect the right of disposal.

Title absolute

1 (25.02.2014) PROPRIETOR: BARNSLEY METROPOLITAN BOROUGH COUNCIL of Town

Hall, Church Street, Barnsley S70 2TA.

2 (25.02.2014) The price stated to have been paid on 14 February 2014 was

£47,000.

3 (25.02.2014) The Transfer to the proprietor contains a covenant to

observe and perform the covenants referred to in the Charges Register

and of indemnity in respect thereof.

[steampowered]

Hmm. I haven't quite thought this through. That (obviously) is the title register for the current owners. Presumably you'd need the register from before the sale.

[sonway]

How do i get hold of this?

[locutus]

As this is in the bear garden, I really wanna ask something silly like "what does a doctor sticking his finger up someones bum have to do with land ownership"... I shall however refrain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh bugger.