Bailiff coming at 5pm

[Woodi79]

Hi, thanks for reply.

 

I was paying off some arrears until I lost my job

then things spiralled a little and we ended up moving house back to England.

 

Unsure why they took so long to get in contact,

I believe from their replies that the LOs were issued on seperate dates, but i'm unsure as to whether they were passed in bulk to Jacobs.

 

I think in the most recent cases of me receiving letters they were all posted at the same time as seperate LO with seperate bailiff fees.

 

I was unaware that i could designate my payments to a particular LO, the council have all my debt seperate but under the same reference,

something which I have asked to be lumped together as one debt to no avail.

 

I have asked for fee breakdowns from the bailiff on a number of occasions but never had a reply.

The most recent being February and 2 days ago.

 

I have informed the council this and that they are responsible for their contractors behaviour only to be told that i should speak with the bailiff

regarding the matter and proceeded to give me the complaints dept. for Jacobs.

 

I will again inform the council of their responsibilities regards Jacobs.

I hope this helps clarify some points.

Thanks for your reply.

[brassnecked]

There is a bone of contention with the fees then, as if you are now resident in England they are applying the Envlish fee scale, interestibgly I wonder if as it is a Welsh council sending the bailiff, then the Welsh fee should be charged? If so Jacobs nay well be still overcharging regarding even a single visit fee.

[Woodi79]

So, quick update, I sent this last email yesterday;

 

On Thursday, 27 March 2014, 16:52, me wrote:

 

Dear Sir,

I would like to bring to your attention what seems to be the unlawful fees charged by your preferred choice of enforcement agency, Jacobs.

 

They have neglected to reply to respond to my emails and as I am aware they appear to be insisting on entry to my property to levy

when they appear to have already charged me for a levy, which I can assure you has not happened.

 

I would also like to bring forward the matter the National Standards for Enforcements Agents regarding Vulnerable People

which they also appear to be failing to adhere to, despite me emailing them. I would like this matter addressed please, Yours me

 

To which I received an email today:

 

Dear Sir,

 

I believe that Jacobs have levied on a vehicle and are making enquiries to confirm ownership of the vehicle.

 

With regards to your comment regarding the National Standards for Enforcements Agents regarding Vulnerable People;

I understand that you consider yourself to be vulnerable due to your circumstances

. I have therefore contacted Jacobs to ensure that they are aware of this.

 

In order that I can asses your current financial situation, Please complete the attached form and return it as soon as possible.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Ceinwen Jones

 

So I replied :

 

Dear madam,

I believe it to be a breach of rules for a bailiff to falsely claim individual fees for groups of Liabilty Orders,

unlawful to levy against a vehicle without properly ascertaining the ownership first

, breach of rules for falsley charging for levies then re-attending to claim additional fees and wanting to levy(???),

 

a violation of the National Standards for Enforcements Agents regarding Vulnerable People for Jacobs to not acknowledge my situation,

 

breach of rules for Jacobs not providing a breakdown of fees,

and Conwy council have vicarious liability in these situations where Jacobs are employed to act on their behalf.

 

I would also be grateful, as Jacobs appear to be ignoring me, if you could inform me off the difference

between the english and welsh fees regarding bailiff fees and which I am being charged.

 

Previous emails regarding my position of vulnerability were not taken seriously or addressed by yourselves or Jacobs,

I was informed firstly that I would be sent to prison if I didn't deal with the bailiffs, and as a result of the accumalation of events,

I feel strongly that I have to begin a Formal Complaint to the head of Conwy Council, Iwan Davies. I

 

would appreciate contact details if possible so I may commence. Yours, me

 

Now I know I probably have been hasty and I don't want to annoy anyone who has offered their advice thus far,

but as far as I can see I have only stated various points that have been brought up with your help.

 

I appreciate everyones help on here so please tell me if I have been out of order and am just digging a big hole for myself:|

[ploddertom]

I think you are on the right track and that all of a sudden the Council have woken up to the fact you do have some valid points that need addressing.

 

To press further ahead with your claim on vulnerability you do need to be able to furnish some proof of the same. For illness a letter from a medical professional, for Benefits a copy of the award notice perhaps.

 

I also don't doubt the Bailiffs/Council are also reading this thread as there is enough information for them to realise who you may be.

[Woodi79]

Am I allowed to post and seek advice????? Would it damage my sitaution if I were to request other peoples directions on the matter??? Surely I am only doing what countless people do in times of distress

[ploddertom]

Am I allowed to post and seek advice????? Would it damage my sitaution if I were to request other peoples directions on the matter??? Surely I am only doing what countless people do in times of distress

 

This what this forum is all about. Keep posting your queries - we may not be able to answer them all but there is a very broad cross section of those who have had simialr experiences.

[Woodi79]

I can and will provide proof, thanks. Just to add despite my wife working I don't claim Jobseekers, I was told when i became unemployed that I hadn't paid enough NI contributions to warrant me clainming anything, but they advised I should 'sign on' as they would be my best means of securing employment.Although I know of many who don't actually actively seek employment or have ever paid NI contributions in their life.I now class myself as a house husband, a job in itself!!!

[Woodi79]

Update, i sent off emails and letters to council and bailiff regarding my unemployment and long term illness, exerts from response from council:

 

"The Magistrates Court can only hold an enquiry into your means if the council commences committal proceedings due to your non-payment of the council tax. The Council cannot commence such proceedings without first having received a certificate from the bailiffs confirming that there are insufficient goods on which to levy distress, so until they have had the opportunity to arrive at that decision they will continue to pursue this matter."

 

"You state that you are vulnerable because you are unemployed and on medication for depression. As far as I am aware you have not raised this matter prior to our recent exchange of emails. If you wish to forward evidence such as a doctors letter confirming your mental health issues then I will give that point further consideration."

 

"The bailiffs costs are the same in Wales as in England. If costs have been incurred under the existing legislation then you will not incur costs under the new legislation. The bailiffs are allowed to charge costs for each liability order with which they are dealing; in your case there are three liability orders. I attach a schedule of the costs incurred to date."

 

So first question, the bailiffs have not been back and will not gain entry to levy distress,so is there a time scale in which the bailiffs have to "arrive at that decision"?

Second point, I have forwarded benefits letters and copies of my medication but I guess they need a letter from my doctor to confirm this?I have told them of my situation before.

So the costs,a list from the council not Jacobs who so far have failed to respond to any emails or post. My question regarding the fees is can they charge a levy fee despite not gaining entry and a van fee? They have charged for these.

The council and Jacobs have also neglected to address my points regarding their wrongful levy on a random car and the fact that the coucncil have said I must deal with the bailiffs until it is passed back to them, hard when no one from the bailiffs returns my mail.

[Woodi79]

Also I filled out a liability order questionaire regarding income and expendtiture and they are asking for more details of my wifes income, full pay details, address of employer and payroll number. Do I have to provide this as I have already put her income on the form? Is this so they can make an AOE?

[ploddertom]

Have a read of these 2 Stickies from above and in particular read the links/attachments given in each one.

 

National Standards for Enforcement Agents - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?379212-National-Standards-for-Enforcement-Agents

 

LGO Reports - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?374293-Local-Government-Ombudsman-Report-on-Councils-and-Bailiffs

 

You will find within the LGO Reports criticism for not treating multiple Orders as one & for levying on vehicles which do not belong to you. You could use these in your arguments with the Council.

[Woodi79]

Thanks for the links, really helpful in drafting my complaints.

Another point to mention, in all three LOs enforced by the bailiff I have had 3 levy fees of different amounts despite no levy occuring, 1 van fee and 3 schedule 5 header h fees. Am i right in thinking that the latter can only be applied in the case of a levy taking place?

[renegadeimp]

A levy fee can only be placed when a levy has been performed. That will soon change, but for now, no levy = no levy fee applied.

[Woodi79]

Thanks, just another to add to my list of complaints.

[renegadeimp]

Just be aware that many bailiffs are greedy and frontload their fee's. They do this because in the majority of cases, they know the debtor doesn't know their rights and they'll pay the bailiff anything they ask purely to make them go away.

[rebel11]

Hi Woodi

 

You've informed them before about your employment status and illness. Once you've got a letter from the Doctor, send them a SAR request. You should be able to find a Template on the Gov or Council website.

[Woodi79]

Hi, already have the emails I sent to which they have responded

[rebel11]

He's basically saying that you haven't informed them previously, so the e-mails are from previous contact.

 

Hi, already have the emails I sent to which they have responded

[Woodi79]

Yes, the emails are from previous contact in 2013 shortly after i lost my job

[rebel11]

Good stuff, well the council chap is wrong then, they have been informed.

 

Yes, the emails are from previous contact in 2013 shortly after i lost my job

[Woodi79]

Cheers, I would like to say that I am in no way trying to shirk the responsibilty of my debts, I fully intend to pay what i owe. Although councils have to adhere to guidelines e.t.c. every case is different and it seems that some simply will not listen or show an ounce of sympathy i.e. your debt, you messed up now pay it! I would also like to just pay what I owe, not extra fees for imaginary reasons, yeah i messed up I know I have but i'm trying to deal with it and the powers that be seem to make life harder in forcing people to do so, sometimes with underhand actions.

[Woodi79]

How polite does one have to be when one is addressing a CEO with the unfortunate task of informing him of the possible failings of some staff employed beneath him??? Don't want to upset them and dig my hole any deeper!

[rebel11]

I would be very polite, but honest, remember you want them to be sympathetic, if you go ballistic they will side with their employees.

 

How polite does one have to be when one is addressing a CEO with the unfortunate task of informing him of the possible failings of some staff employed beneath him??? Don't want to upset them and dig my hole any deeper!

[Woodi79]

]So, question about this is, I have provided income and expenditure form, why (and can they) ask for more details regarding my wifes employment?

 

Dear Sir

 

I refer to your various emails. The Magistrates Court can only hold an enquiry into your means if the council commences committal proceedings due to your non-payment of the council tax. The Council cannot commence such proceedings without first having received a certificate from the bailiffs confirming that there are insufficient goods on which to levy distress, so until they have had the opportunity to arrive at that decision they will continue to pursue this matter.

 

Any payments made by you direct to the council will be credited to the debt for the period 01/04/13 to 15/07/13, which has not been referred to the bailiffs; the sum currently due is £73.22.

 

You state that you are vulnerable because you are unemployed and on medication for depression. As far as I am aware you have not raised this matter prior to our recent exchange of emails. If you wish to forward evidence such as a doctors letter confirming your mental health issues then I will give that point further consideration.

 

You have completed the income and expenditure form on which you have indicated that ........has an income of £1,400,000 per week. Please would you provide full details of her income, i.e. employers name and address, and her payroll number.

 

The bailiffs costs are the same in Wales as in England. If costs have been incurred under the existing legislation then you will not incur costs under the new legislation. The bailiffs are allowed to charge costs for each liability order with which they are dealing; in your case there are three liability orders. I attach a schedule of the costs incurred to date.

 

If you wish to make a formal complaint you should follow the procedure as set out in the attached leaflet.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Received this from Jacobs today, but no breakdown of fees, no mention of my vulnerability status

 

 

Dear ME

 

We acknowledge receipt of your emails and note the contents therein.

 

Fees raised are in accordance with the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended).

 

Your account is currently allocated to our Enforcement Bailiff, ........... who has been instructed by this office to collect payment in full only. Please contact the bailiff in charge 0123456789

 

Failure to comply with the above may result in further recovery action being taken.

 

We thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

 

Regards

Jacobs Enforcement

 

I take it the only action they can now enforce is another attempt at a levy in my house? Or does this now have to be passed back?

 

I have also attatched a draft of my letter to CEO of council if interested, it has attatchments such as LGO guidelines and reports, thanks for your time

[rebel11]

Hi Woodi

 

Is the following correct?

 

'has an income of £1,400,000 per week. Please would you provide full details of her income, i.e. employers name and address, and her payroll number.'

 

The letter to the CEO, you need some spaces to create paragraphs.

[Woodi79]

LOL, if only it were true, just took the actual figure out. One can dream i suppose!

Thanks for advice on letter