Debtor avoids being sent to prison for threatening a bailiff with a knife.

[tomtubby]

The following story is proof if any is needed that Judges will not tolerate debtors threatening bailiffs with violence. The story was featured in the news yesterday.

 

The link to the story is here and a 'word copy' of the article is below:

 

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/man-who-threatened-bailiff-with-knife-avoids-jail-to-look-after-elderly-mother-1-5883008

 

 

 

A 45-year-old man who threatened a bailiff with a knife after he came round to collect an unpaid £800 council tax bill has avoided a jail sentence.

 

Philip Devenport, of Marlow Road, Towcester, was found guilty after a trial at Northampton Magistrates’ Court of a public order offence.

 

The court heard the bailiff called at Devenport’s home address on 6th September last year. Devenport swore at the bailiff and shut the door in his face. The bailiff then knocked on the door again and Devenport opened the door with a knife in his hand.

The bailiff then went back to his car to complete a report of the incident and, a short while later, Devenport then walked past and threatened him again.

 

Ron Mineards, defending, said the offence was clearly aggravated by the fact it was against a bailiff and involved him being threatened with a knife.

 

The district judge presiding over the case said he “could not think of many more serious examples of a public order offence” but decided not to send Devenport to jail as he was the full-time carer for his elderly mother.

 

Devenport was sentenced to 24 weeks in prison, suspended for 12 months. He must compete a 10-day course, pay costs of £620, victim surcharge of £80 and compensation to the bailiff of £85.

[outlawla]

I don't understand! Was the defence suggesting that the offence was any more serious by the fact it was against a bailiff? If so, why?

[tomtubby]

 

I don't understand! Was the defence suggesting that the offence was any more serious by the fact it was against a bailiff? If so, why?

 

As I understand it the quote was because of the 'status' of the person who was being threatened (ie: a bailiff).

 

As with Form 4 Complaints Judges appear to not see any fault with bailiffs and consider that they are doing a tough and difficult job and one that provides revenue to government 'coffers'.

[tomtubby]

With regards to the Public Order Offence, I have actually come across three others cases in the past few months (non of which made the newspapers) and yet, in each case they too were charged with Public Order Offences. I should also add that in each case the debtor had been found guilty.

 

It would be good to hear from somebody with a legal background on this.

[wonkeydonkey]

When you have people on other forums advocating its ok to take an axe to a bailiff and there is no risk to arrest for doing so........this clearly send the message , the advice being touted by that site is as good as all the other drivel they give out.....of little value.to anyone..

[brassnecked]

I threatened to run a bailiff over with a truck, and got away with it, I was parked opposite a debtor's house in the truck on the phone(to the local MP as it hapenned) when the Jacobs numpty tried to levy it.. His Ford Focus would not have been able to tow it anyway.I reported him in to plod as a bogus official, and they said that as he was trying to take third party goods he was bogus in their eyes.

[unclebulgaria67]

I am sure a good Solicitors could have explained that the householder was in the process of making Spaghetti Bolognese and took the knife to the door because they had just been cutting some onions. Therefore there was no intention to threaten the bailiff with a knife.

 

Bailiffs are protected by the courts, because they are part of the system. Courts, Police, local councils etc rely on debts being collected. Any threat therefore is seen an attack on one of their own people.

[HCEOs]

The bailiff was entitled to be there (no trespass was committed) and any idiot that brandishes a knife should be locked up, whether it's at a bailiff or not.

[andydd]

Clearly there is a difference though between brandishing a knife in public and opening the door whilost holding one, I believe there have been occasions where I have been in my kitchen and opened the door whilst holding a utensil, the Judges quote that he could not think of a more serious example of public order perhaps implies he should go out more or even just turn on the TV news.

 

I also agree that even if mortgaged a property belongs to its owner and not the bank. It will be the owners name on any deeds, etc

[tomtubby]

Unfortunately this subject is quickly managing to get "off topic' and this is such a shame as this subject is very important.

[unclebulgaria67]

Unfortunately this subject is quickly managing to get "off topic' and this is such a shame as this subject is very important.

 

Not sure what other type of responses you were expecting ? This unfortunately comes down to some bailiffs having misbehaved giving the profession a bad name. If people believe that bailiffs act in a certain way, then this will colour the judgement of people.

 

Somehow the bailiff industry needs to change the perception of people, so that most see them as doing a difficult job to a good professional standard. This will require the management of bailiff companies to come down hard on any bailiff who does not meet the standards required.

[wonkeydonkey]

Having read the article again, clearly there are those who have missed the fact (the debtor could well have been chopping onions for his spag bol when the knock came) it was after the bailiff left the property he took his knife outside the house, approached the bailiffs car and waved it in a threatening manner and IMHO this is indeed a serious example of public disorder, the fact it was a bailiff and not the butcher, baker or candlestick maker, calling to collect monies owed to them, is what appears to have attracted attention.

[welsh1]

Any person that uses violence or threats of violence deserves to go to prison.

 

 

The law is clear,you may use reasonable force,so if someone is shouting at you threatening them is hardly reasonable.

Edited February 21, 2014 by citizenB
removed quoted post

[brassnecked]

Exactly so welsh1 If I had video evidence of the erratic behaviour and driving of the Jacobs bailiff I had unfortunate dealings with, I would have handed it to the police, as it cuts both ways.

 

It is not reasonable to chase after someone in the street with a weapon after they have left the premises, so in the case highlighted by tomubby the verdict would be correct, but each situation has to be judged on it's own particular facts.

[renegadeimp]

Yawn.

 

When a bailiff calls, he had the authority of the courts to come on to your land. However he cannot enter the house without gaining peaceful entry. This is where you are getting confused.

 

Saying that, if the bailiff sees he is making no progress towards collection, then he should retreat and get further orders from the court. However, if it is a hceo then the whole ballgame changes.

 

This talk about being allowed to brandish a gun menacingly without repercussion is pure fotl crap. Plain and simple.

 

The ONLY time a person could brandish a weapon like that is on private grounds such as wild farmers fields in mountainous and remote areas where the farmer is allowed by law to do it to control wildlife and protect their livestock.they can even allowed to kill peoples pets if the animals are off leash and harassing livestock. There are signs everywhere to show this. They still arent allowed to aim at a person.

 

Trust me on that. I reguarly go to farmland in snowdonia with a good friend who is a licenced gamekeeper and land keeper. Id take his 30 years of knowledge over the rubbish in this thread anyday.

[renegadeimp]

That I agree with. Outside of your home is public property and the law is in full force. Personally I think if you are stupid enough to carry a knife in public, let alone threaten someone with it, then it needs to be a mandatory custodial sentence. People may say its just a threat, but they need to realise that its a threat to kill or do serious assault.

[sequenci]

Whilst I absolutely agree that the debtor in this case should have been prosecuted there is something that I've never, ever been able to understand - and that is why we never come across cases where a bailiff has been prosecuted for fraud? How many times has a bailiff dishonestly made a statement to make a gain for himself or cause a loss to another? Or abused their position? it happens every day of the week. I absolutely appreciate that bailiffs do a difficult job but I do feel that they've been able to get away with far too much over the years.

 

Oh, and for what it's worth. I cannot abide the statement 'FTOL twaddle' - it makes my skin crawl!

[renegadeimp]

bailiffs dont get prosecuted usually because they are acting under court guidelines, and when a complaint is made, they do what DCA's do and call it an "administrative error which was subsequently rectified". Sure, rectified once the official complaint was in, so they could fob it off as always.

[outlawla]

....there is something that I've never, ever been able to understand - and that is why we never come across cases where a bailiff has been prosecuted for fraud? How many times has a bailiff dishonestly made a statement to make a gain for himself or cause a loss to another? Or abused their position? it happens every day of the week......

 

There is nothing more to add. This should be sent to the Chief Constable of every police force and Local Authority in the UK, and of course not forgetting the Home Office and DCLG.

[Conniff]

This thread has moved dramatically away from the original topic. I have tidied it up and removed irrelevant posts. I apologise to those who have had a post removed, some posts didn't make any sense when the off topic posts were unapproved.

[sgtbush]

This thread has moved dramatically away from the original topic. I have tidied it up and removed irrelevant posts. I apologise to those who have had a post removed, some posts didn't make any sense when the off topic posts were unapproved.

 

apologies--- i was partly to blame for that!

[Conniff]

We all were, no need for apologies, it happens often.

[Conniff]

Oh, and for what it's worth. I cannot abide the statement 'FTOL twaddle' - it makes my skin crawl!

 

The swear filter won't let us tell the truth.

[welsh1]

apologies--- i was partly to blame for that!

 

 

And i would be the other part,so easy to get distracted,my apologies also:sorry: