Private landlord selling house, and can't afford to rent privately again

[estellyn]

The LL has to do nothing, apart from act within the Law.

He does not have to serve s21, jump through Council hoops or assist you in any way to obtain social housing.

 

 

 

He isn't serving the section 21 to aid the OP, he's doing it because he requires them to move out of the property due to a house sale. He doesn't need to jump through council hoops, he needs to jump through the hoops the law requires for eviction of a tenant.

 

 

Due to the impending eviction, the OP requires housing and is unable to get privately rented accommodation, and so at the end of the eviction process will be homeless, which will qualify them to be housed by the LA.

 

 

Yes, some authorities in high rent areas are housing people out of area. From the quoted LHA, it does not sound as if this applies to the OP, though yes, stating the Council involved may help, if the OP is willing.

[mariner51]

estellyn, you misunderstand me.

We agree orig s21 would be declared invalid (deposit not protected) so LL would have to re-serve, approx. 4-5 months to repo.

The buyer may already have withdrawn or prepared to issue s21 when sale complete.

Org LL still has a rent-paying T, so unless he wants to proceed with repo for vacant possession he has no need to re-issue s21.

He can wait until T owes 2 month rent then serve s8 g8 (14 day expiry) before Court action. If repo granted for s8, then Council under no obligation to re-house (T intentionally homeless), whereas a s21 no fault repo would benefit the OP by forcing the Council to re-house T.

My reaction to Councils advising Ts to await s21 repo order is to ask for court costs be applied to T. Too many times when social housing has been offered to my Ts, Council expects them to move-in within a week, with no consideration to existing AST T&Cs or the Law.

The only way OP can force the current situation, is to sue LL for deposit non-protection and gain some money for future rent & deposit in private sector housing, unless Social Housing is offered soon.

Or explain potential penalty to LL clearly & concisely in writing and negotiate.

 

 

As a LL that was difficult advice to type, but LL is a numpty .

[estellyn]

I agree it is a difficult situation for landlords when a tenant is going into social housing. However, a tenant can apply for overlapping housing benefit to cover the remaining notice period on the private let - recently had to do this myself.

 

 

I understand that you're coming at this from a different perspective if you are a landlord.

 

 

But for the tenant, not paying rent and waiting for a section 8 eviction means they are intentionally homeless, which means not qualifying for social housing. And yes there are options such as taking court action over the non protected deposit, but if the aim of the OP is to secure long term social housing, rather than short term insecure private lets, in order to help his partner's mental health, then private renting is not what he wants - not even taking into account the difficulty getting a private rental on benefits these days.

 

 

In any case the OP is in limbo right now, and you're right that the buyer may want to pull out, but if they've not had a survey done, they can't be too far in the process and the invalid s21 was given over two months ago, so it may be that the LL does want the property vacant for sale, even before he got a buyer. Regardless of what happens, as you say, the OP has quite a few months left at the property, because, yes, the LL is a numpty.

[alpo287]

A guy came round the other day to do an energy rating survey and the LL said that's the last step before they do the exchanging of contracts. He said he plans to exchange the contracts next week at some point. The LL is saying that once this new owner has done the contracts with him, he washes his hands of this house and the new owner can move his possessions in, start building work on the house, whatever he wants, so he has told me to put our possessions into storage (which we can't as it's too expensive) and go to the council homeless on the day. I am definitely going to put everything in writing for him though, as suggested. When I put in writing for the buyer I'm not sure where to send it to as I don't have his details?

[estellyn]

A guy came round the other day to do an energy rating survey and the LL said that's the last step before they do the exchanging of contracts. He said he plans to exchange the contracts next week at some point. The LL is saying that once this new owner has done the contracts with him, he washes his hands of this house and the new owner can move his possessions in, start building work on the house, whatever he wants, so he has told me to put our possessions into storage (which we can't as it's too expensive) and go to the council homeless on the day. I am definitely going to put everything in writing for him though, as suggested. When I put in writing for the buyer I'm not sure where to send it to as I don't have his details?

 

 

Drop it round to the agents dealing with the sale, maybe, with directions on the envelope; confidential, to be opened by vendors conveyancer.

 

 

Be aware, that though this is the right thing to do - to inform the vendor that you will be tenants in situ and he will need to commence court proceedings once a valid section 21 runs out, as you have nowhere else to go, but council will rehouse you as homeless if evicted through court action. Make sure that you explain that if you do as your landlord asks and move out on the day the sale goes through, you will be making yourself intentionally homeless and putting your family on the street, as the Council will not rehouse you in those circumstances, and private rental is out of your reach.

 

 

If your landlord does wash his hands of you, and doesn't return the deposit and serve a new section 21, then my understanding is that the new owner takes over responsibilities of your tenancy and would need to return or protect the deposit and serve the section 21.

 

 

Best you include a copy of the letter you've sent to your landlord so that the buyer knows your landlord has been made aware of his responsibilities - and it's entirely possible the LL is telling him you'll move out on day of sale.

 

 

Don't explain to the estate agent what's in the letter as they may not pass it on if they know - their fee depends on the sale going through, and as you'll aware, there's the possibility of this sort of issue derailing the sale.

 

 

Make sure you keep paying your rent throughout, as a section 8 eviction for non payment of rent will mean the council deciding you are intentionally homeless.

[Lea_HTH]

You're all looking at this in the most complicated ways possible.

 

There are two things here: 1. Landlord wants vacant possession to sell and 2. Tenant wants social housing.

 

The solution therefore, is incredibly straightforward. Tenant allows landlord to keep remainder of deposit to cover his costs for eviction (it'll cost around £300 in total) - agrees that deposit has therefore been repaid in full (get agreement in writing) - though it is preferable to say no deposit was ever taken. Landlord issues proceedings with now valid s21 notice (no one needs to know that deposit wasn't protected in time), possession is granted, landlord gets vacant possession, tenant gets eviction notice to hand to council - and everyone is happy.

 

Most importantly for BOTH parties, there are no further delays - accelerated proceedings can be started the day after s21 notice runs out and LL can ask for HCEO enforcement, which means notice of eviction can be as little as a day later.

[estellyn]

You're all looking at this in the most complicated ways possible.

 

There are two things here: 1. Landlord wants vacant possession to sell and 2. Tenant wants social housing.

 

The solution therefore, is incredibly straightforward. Tenant allows landlord to keep remainder of deposit to cover his costs for eviction (it'll cost around £300 in total) - agrees that deposit has therefore been repaid in full (get agreement in writing) - though it is preferable to say no deposit was ever taken. Landlord issues proceedings with now valid s21 notice (no one needs to know that deposit wasn't protected in time), possession is granted, landlord gets vacant possession, tenant gets eviction notice to hand to council - and everyone is happy.

 

Most importantly for BOTH parties, there are no further delays - accelerated proceedings can be started the day after s21 notice runs out and LL can ask for HCEO enforcement, which means notice of eviction can be as little as a day later.

 

 

Yes, that is a good idea about the deposit. But even if the landlord issued a valid section 21 tomorrow and court proceedings were commenced the day after the notice period, vacant possession won't happen unless the vendor (who is expecting to exchange contracts next week) agrees to delay the completion of sale - otherwise, the landlord gets to keep the rest of the deposit, but it will be the vendor who has to initiate court action.

[Lea_HTH]

I can virtually guarantee that sale isn't going through to completion without vacant possession; particularly if the buyer wants to live there.

 

S21 has already been served - it is in tenant's and LL's best interests to ensure that notice is valid - proceed to court, get PO, evict. No need for either to mention the deposit - or both can confirm deposit was paid but returned before s21 issued. They both want the same thing - it's just that neither one of them is seeing it from the other's point of view.

[estellyn]

I can virtually guarantee that sale isn't going through to completion without vacant possession; particularly if the buyer wants to live there.

 

S21 has already been served - it is in tenant's and LL's best interests to ensure that notice is valid - proceed to court, get PO, evict. No need for either to mention the deposit - or both can confirm deposit was paid but returned before s21 issued. They both want the same thing - it's just that neither one of them is seeing it from the other's point of view.

 

 

I understand what you're saying, and it's an idea, but requires a levels of co-operation from the landlord which he seems unwilling to give, and also relying on no one at the LA twigging that the current section 21 is invalid (the OP has already informed them about the deposit issue as they recommended he sue the landlord).

 

 

But yes, were the LL co-operative, it would be a way forward amenable to both - but sounds as if the LL is completely resistant to the idea of court action, which is what the OP needs for re-housing.

 

 

The LL appears to just be sticking his fingers in his ears, going 'la, la, la' and hoping the OP and family will simply move out.

[alpo287]

Just had the LL round to collect his rent. He is still reluctant to go to court, but he has asked me to ask here what is the name of the court document that he would need to give us to give to council, and he also wants to know how much will it cost him to obtain it as he says he has no money. His friend told him it would be £175?? He was also asking me how long does it take for the court to give him the document needed for us to take to council, as he says he's afraid of the buyer pulling out, and he's running out of excuses for keeping him at bay. He says he has never heard of anything like this before and it's all new to him.

 

Then he went into a rant about how his friends who are landlords when they have wanted a tenant out they just change the locks and throw them out no questions asked, but he insists as we are on good terms with him, and we are a young family etc he won't do what his friends do to us.

 

Now he has said that he will try and delay the sale of the house for a few more weeks, giving us some more time to hear from the council regarding our application. I again explained to him that the time is irrelevant anyway as we are allowed to stay here for as long as we want without the court action. He brushed it off again with 'oh bloody hell, the whole system is a joke' 'this is ridiculous why are they are making for it difficult for the LL'.

 

Regarding the deposit, the LL has told the LA that no deposit was given. he didn't write any form of receipt for the deposit either, and his agreement with us is to just give us the other half back when we leave.

 

He said he has an appointment with his solicitor regarding another issue and will ask for advice at the same time.

[estellyn]

sounds like the way is clear then for him to simply go to court - hopefully someone more experienced will come along with details of court forms.

 

 

With the fact that you can put a spanner in the sale for him, he really has no choice but to file the court papers.

[45002]

Just had the LL round to collect his rent. He is still reluctant to go to court, but he has asked me to ask here what is the name of the court document that he would need to give us to give to council, and he also wants to know how much will it cost him to obtain it as he says he has no money. His friend told him it would be £175?? He was also asking me how long does it take for the court to give him the document needed for us to take to council, as he says he's afraid of the buyer pulling out, and he's running out of excuses for keeping him at bay. He says he has never heard of anything like this before and it's all new to him.

 

Then he went into a rant about how his friends who are landlords when they have wanted a tenant out they just change the locks and throw them out no questions asked, but he insists as we are on good terms with him, and we are a young family etc he won't do what his friends do to us.

 

Now he has said that he will try and delay the sale of the house for a few more weeks, giving us some more time to hear from the council regarding our application. I again explained to him that the time is irrelevant anyway as we are allowed to stay here for as long as we want without the court action. He brushed it off again with 'oh bloody hell, the whole system is a joke' 'this is ridiculous why are they are making for it difficult for the LL'.

 

Regarding the deposit, the LL has told the LA that no deposit was given. he didn't write any form of receipt for the deposit either, and his agreement with us is to just give us the other half back when we leave.

 

He said he has an appointment with his solicitor regarding another issue and will ask for advice at the same time.

 

illegal Eviction under 1977 Protection from Eviction act, 1985 housing act, as amended.

 

Is a Criminal offence ...

 

Up to 6 months in Prison or fines or both upon conviction at the magistrates court.

 

Up to 2 years in Prison or fines or both upon conviction at the Crown court.

 

Plus a tenant can sue in the county court for damages...

----------------------

 

alpo287

 

You really do need to get help locally from someone who's knows about housing issues in your area, to represent you and write to your LL if necessary !

 

Ether from going to local CAB office, Enter your full post code http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ you may have to sit around for a few hours waiting to see someone.

 

Or contact your Local Shelter office/Law center, Enter your full post code http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_services_directory

 

The longer you leave it, the worse this could get for you !

[alpo287]

I am already with Citizens Advice and Shelter's legal team. Both have just said the same thing to us that the Council has a legal obligation to help given our circumstance and that the LL needs to go through the proper procedure to evict us. Although Shelter have twice wrote to me saying that we can request temp accommodation while we are waiting for a decision from the council on our homeless application. One council officer has also told me as I mentioned earlier that the day they have exchanged contracts on the property we can come in and get temp accommodation.

 

This confuses me because when we go to the council for that very temp accommodation they tell us to stay here and don't give him keys back, the same as the advice I have received here. So why are Shelters legal people writing letters telling me we can have temp accommodation now, but to get that temp accommodation would mean handing him the keys back, and thus, making ourselves intentionally homeless. Makes no sense to me. On one hand you have people in Shelter and Council saying come and get your temp accommodation now, then on the other hand people from the same organizations are saying under no circumstances give him the keys back and just wait it out. They can't both be right.

[Lea_HTH]

Landlord needs an N5 form, or N5B for accelerated proceedings - I'd suggest he use the latter, it's quicker. You and he need to agree together that there is no deposit, otherwise the claim will fail.

 

LL will be awarded costs against you for having to bring the proceedings - you pay him back for any money he has to spend evicting you, which includes the court fee for filing the claim, as well as the bailiff fee to evict you. In addition, if your tenancy agreement makes reference to it, he can claim for the cost of his solicitor.

 

He cannot evict you without raising costs, and the court will make you responsible for those costs, up to a fixed amount if not mentioned in the tenancy agreement, and much more if mentioned in the tenancy agreement.

 

As I said, you and LL both want the same thing - you out of the house. So don't threaten him with court action for not protecting your deposit - pointless in these circumstances, and arguably too expensive for you if you can't afford to rent again privately - instead negotiate about how quickly you can both work together to get you out so that he doesn't lose his sale and you get your social housing points.

[Lea_HTH]

Re Shelter: they are right, according to the letter of the law, they are wrong because in practice what local authorities do is work according to whether or not you are officially homeless, as in NO ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD AT ALL - and that too is according to the law.

 

Since it's the LA that will rehouse you, you have to follow what they say, not what Shelter say.

 

I doubt that there are any local authorities who will rehouse anyone whilst they have another address that they are not legally obliged to leave.

[45002]

I am already with Citizens Advice and Shelter's legal team. Both have just said the same thing to us that the Council has a legal obligation to help given our circumstance and that the LL needs to go through the proper procedure to evict us. Although Shelter have twice wrote to me saying that we can request temp accommodation while we are waiting for a decision from the council on our homeless application. One council officer has also told me as I mentioned earlier that the day they have exchanged contracts on the property we can come in and get temp accommodation.

 

This confuses me because when we go to the council for that very temp accommodation they tell us to stay here and don't give him keys back, the same as the advice I have received here. So why are Shelters legal people writing letters telling me we can have temp accommodation now, but to get that temp accommodation would mean handing him the keys back, and thus, making ourselves intentionally homeless. Makes no sense to me. On one hand you have people in Shelter and Council saying come and get your temp accommodation now, then on the other hand people from the same organizations are saying under no circumstances give him the keys back and just wait it out. They can't both be right.

 

Glad to see you got help from Shelter/CAB

 

From what you posted so far, it sounds like your LL is up to No good and could be planning to do some think behind you back if you see what I mean.

 

Be careful ....

[alpo287]

In the meantime does anyone have any advice regarding the damp in the property and the electrical repairs? Should I just continue to live with it basically until there is some solution to this predicament? I should point out that these repairs have been outstanding since we moved in - but given that our situation was pretty desperate when we accepted the tenancy - I took the LL on his word that all repairs would be sorted out as soon as we were living here. Alas, the repairs were left outstanding and up to now I haven't bothered 'going after' him to sort them out because he says it costs to much to call out an electrician and what not and just repeats this each time I have asked him. Pressing him now is futile as he says he has no money and it is no longer his responsibility as he is selling up.

 

My neighbour who is a qualified electrician and plumber has been in the property a few times and says that electrics are unacceptable and an accident waiting to happen and that I should sue the LL because it's not right for him to leave them like that (taped up plug sockets, sockets hanging from wall) with a small child in the house. The LL responded by telling me to ask the neighbour if he would do the work as a favour to us, which I obviously didn't bother to do, asking the guy to do thousands of pounds worth of work for free? The neighbour also said that the damp in the kitchen and the porous bricks outside are the cause of me and partners constant coughing, wheezing and sore throat. I have absolutely no idea of different types of damp etc so I don't know whether this is accurate or not.

 

So to sum up, should I just continue to live and bear it until this is sorted out? Have told the CA and Shelter about it, they didn't really say much except to mention it to the council.

[mariner51]

On the one hand I would say your housing predicament is more important than conditions you have tolerated for whole of T.

However, an EHO inspection visit/report may concentrate LLs mind on your continued occupation. EHO support may also focus the Council's mind

[deannatrois]

I'm in much the same situation as this poster.., its a nightmare. Looks like council are going to try and declare me intentionally homeless because they are saying I can afford to pay £200 a month on top of HLA, when I have two ASD son's to look after (this is where my 'extra' income comes from.

 

And I too have mental health problems, and physical problems.

 

But it doesn't matter.

[mariner51]

Asd?

[BazzaS]

Asd?

 

The hazard of abbreviations!

 

I'd guess "autism spectrum disorder", but could be wrong.

(Atrial septal defect??)

[SabreSheep]

Hi Dean

 

In order to get help for your situation can you create your own thread and give the members a history of your problem.

 

Regards

 

SS

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Here's a link to creating a new thread on the lettings forum.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=65

 

HB

[alpo287]

Sorry forgot to update this thread, the eventual outcome was we were offered a property by a housing association, it was even in the exact area we wanted to live in too. I still see the landlord out and about in the supermarket and stuff and he keeps insulting the guy who bought the house because he says that the guy was pressuring him to get us out through his solicitor and telling him he needs the house empty urgently or will pull out, but yet all this time later he still hasn't moved in, when he drives past the house is still empty and looks exactly the same as when we left it and he sold it.

 

To the other person in the same situation I don't really know as we were offered this HA place out of the blue without ever even bidding on it, but I would say if you have mental health problems or other disabilities go down that route because the housing association tenancy officer almost openly said that the reason for being awarded highest priority on their register/waiting list was because of the health issues my partner has. He was making it clear that was what they saw as priority.

[SabreSheep]

Thank you for the update, it is always helpful to others to know what happened. Glad it worked out for you in the end, just seems like a whole lot of effort for an empty house. Still at least the new owner is now in theory losing money