In a DMP, one third complete

[Thainy3]

Have five creditors..

Barclays,

NRAM and

 

three that appear to have been sold on from the original credit card company...

 

now with

Direct Legal & Collections,

London Scottish Finance Ltd and

Paragon Personal Finance Ltd.

 

I have no problem paying what I owe (e.g. to Barclays)

but can only assume these chancers have bought the debt for next to nothing...

 

I certainly do have a problem paying them.

 

Can I challenge them as to the validity of the loan/their involvement?

 

Read about a CCA request, is that appropriate?

 

They have all frozen interest so I am a little wary of stirring it up but on the other hand....

 

Main objective is to obv be debt free but I want to clean up the credit history too

[fletch70]

When were the cards taken out?

 

There is certainly noting wrong with sending a S77/78 request . A lot depends on a) when the accounts were opened b) can the new owners produce the required info.

 

So if you can tell us who now own the debt who they were with and when they were opened I am sure someone can give you advice

[Thainy3]

Thanks. Direct Legal & Collections (MBNA circa 2007), London Scottish Finance Ltd (HBOS circa 2005) and Paragon Personal Finance Ltd (M&S FInance circa 2006).

[fletch70]

Ok certainly worth sending a CCA request off. The crucial date is April 2007 . The M&S card was it by any chance a store card that was turned into a credit card?

 

Send off the CCA requests ..http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387435-CCA-Request-Consumer-Credit-Act-1974 is pne letter

 

I personally have always used this one

Dear Sirs

Ref: xxxxxxxx

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days).

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

I also remind you of your duties, in line with recent OFT Guidance (issued Oct 2010) surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the OFT has stipulated that 'sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements'. This simply means that under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

a copy of their agreement

copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement

a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

 

make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to

get a court judgment against the debtor

So, in line with the OFT Guidance, and the Consumer Credit Act, please find attached my £1 payment, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee and then remove the incorrect entry from your systems.

I do, expect the main actions to be dealt with, as matter of course, and look forward to hearing from you within the prescribed time-scales quoted however, in the meantime, I require that you clarify your position on this point as failure to do so, even by omission or lack of a response, will be regarded as an attempt to deliberately misrepresent or conceal the legal position regarding this matter to which an appropriate complaint will be made to the OFT.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Sign Digitally

 

If you use the Cag letter remember that S77 is for a loan and if they do not comply s77(6) comes into force but S78 is for a credit card and its S78(4) that comes into force.

That means if they can not fulfil your request they can not enforce subject to S77(6) or S78(4) of the CCA 1974.

The must include , in one envelope

A copy of your agreement (but it can be a recon if they do not have the original)

A copy of terms and conditions at inception

A copy of terms and conditions at default (or if not defaulted current)

A signed statement of account.

 

Once they have replied it may be that the documents to not fulfill the criteria laid down and do not contain all the prescribed terms

When you get them back let us know.

 

Are the other two loans or credit cards? If so I would send a CCA request to them as well

 

 

There is an OFT guide that is quite handy ,google OFT 1272

[Thainy3]

Thanks. Barclays is an OD, NR is an unsecured loan.

 

If they can't provide, what are the next steps?

[Thainy3]

Thanks, just read up on OFT 1272.... not sure this is for me, I need to get my credit history cleaned up eventually so not paying and leaving these in dispute are going to cause me perpetual credit problems, aren't they?

[fletch70]

No it won't cause perpetual debt problems.

I assume that all the debts have already been defaulted?

If so they will disappear off your credit file after 6 years never to return.

If you make no payment or written acknowledgement for a period of 6 years then they become statute barred and can not be collected. It is actually 6 years from the cause of action but if you have been defaulted then its 6 years from the last payment

[fletch70]

Thanks. Barclays is an OD, NR is an unsecured loan.

 

If they can't provide, what are the next steps?

 

The OD is a bit more difficult but the NR can be CCA'd.

If they don't respond you can stop paying after sending a letter saying they are in breach of your request and as such it is in dispute until they comply. If they send you something and it doesn't meet the criteria you can send a letter saying that it is in dispute and again stop paying.

They will try and tell you that you are wrong etc etc,just stick to your guns

[Thainy3]

Cheers, great advice

 

but just so I am clear...

 

you say

"If you make no payment or written acknowledgement for a period of 6 years

then they become statute barred and can not be collected.

 

It is actually 6 years from the cause of action

but if you have been defaulted then its 6 years from the last payment".

 

NR is showing as arrangement to pay,

others were defaulted back in 2009 and one has a CCJ.

 

I have been paying every month since 2008

so if I stop payment now,

then it's six years from now before they drop off the credit report?

[fletch70]

Ok One thng at a time

The CCJ ,that will drop off your credit report satisfied or not in 6 years. It doesn't mean though that you can stop paying. Are you paying a low amount set by the court? If so you may be able to settle it with a full and final offer . I paid two ccjs for many years until I decided enough was enough and stopped paying. They have not chased me, but I do mean about 15 years i was paying it

 

The two that have been defaulted , the defaults will drop off at the end of 6 years but again not the liability. IF they were to get a CCJ that would then last another 6 years however the best way to be prepared for that is to send a CCA request now. If that shows they are UE then you can pretty safely stop paying.

 

NR now that is a bit more complicated as I am not sure when the cause of action was. Have they marked your credit file with a default or just an arrangement to pay. If you stop paying they can then mark a default but it is very cheeky of them to just mark arrangement to pay. Depending on the amount there may be ways of getting that sorted. Not my field though

[Thainy3]

I owe about £3K each on the cards with a CCJ and the other two. All three were about £5K, paying about £50 per month to each so it is reducing. I was always paying £50 per month, the court didn't alter that.

 

Cheers, what does UE mean with regards to the CCA?

 

NR is marked as arrangement to pay, no default. Been that way since 2009. Was £20K, now £13K.

[fletch70]

UE =unenforceable

 

If they can not produce all the paperwork they should then it is UE until they do. So for example they might not have a copy of the agreement,or it might be the terms and conditions that they don't have. This can be fixed though.

If the agreement is pre apr 2007 and does not contain all the prescribed terms then it is irredeemably unenforceable. Remember that having an arrangement to pay on your credit file is as bad as a default so I would really want that debt defaulted. Frankly as you are only paying £50 per month it will take a long time to clear so you may as well send off a CCA request and get it defaulted.

 

That is only my opinion though.

 

Another option is to look at reclaiming any PPI or penalty charges to reduce the balances

[Thainy3]

CCA letters drafted. Do I send to the original creditor, or the DCA?

[fletch70]

Send it to whoever you are dealing with at the moment so from what you say DLC, London Scottish, Paragon and NRAM. Was the Nram loan secured or unsecured?

 

 

Have you had a notice of assignment about the move to Marlin?

http://www.n-ram.co.uk/loans/sale-of-personal-loans

Edited October 23, 2013 by fletch70

[Thainy3]

OK thanks. NRAM was unsecured and taken out in 2005. Had the notice of assignment which is due to take place next week. Have asked NRAM for a full and final

[fletch70]

Great, well get that CCA request off to them so they get it hopefully this week and certainly before the assignment takes place

[Thainy3]

Will that mean it can't be assigned? Fingers crossed

[fletch70]

No but it will mean you will know if its enforceable or not. If it's not as soon as they write to you asking for money you can write back saying it is in dispute due to xyz. Often what happens then is that the account is returned to the Original creditor or they should stop pestering you

[Thainy3]

One of the creditors issued a CCJ in 2011, the account was originally default in 2009. Even if I pay this off in full, I assume the CCJ will sit there until 2017?

[fletch70]

Yes that is correct however you can get it marked as satisfied on your file.

When they got the CCJ did you know about it or did they for example send the claim to an old address?

 

Who has the CCJ?

[Thainy3]

Knew about it, ignored it as I was happy with the monthly payment and scared they would try and force me to pay the whole lot back immediately!! In hindsight - absolute idiot!

[fletch70]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There are lots of things i would change in hindsight ...for example never put a penny in a fruit machine but hey ho.

 

Which of these debts is it?

If it is one of the ones that have been sold on has the new owner had their name substituted. I guess the CCA wil show that up

[Thainy3]

Yes, one that has been sold. Was Hillesden (MBNA) now Paragon

[fletch70]

So I assume that Hillsden got the CCJ then sold the debt on to paragon. Did paragon have their name substituted on the judgement? They might not even be aware that there is a CCJ on it.

 

I got a bit confused because DLC are Hillsden

[Thainy3]

I assume so. CCJ is still with Hillesden