Warranty issue with mercedes. any help?

[innocent_man]

Dear friends,

 

I bought a 57 plate s320 from my company for personal use.

 

It had 128k on the clock when I bought it.

 

The engine was replaced with new engine at 107k by mercedes dealer on 27th September 2011.

mileage now is 153k.

 

The mercedes new parts warranty is two years with labour if the part was fitted by Mercedes.

 

There was some noise coming from engine area in cold start since last month.

 

I went to merc in london and they booked the car in for diagnosis on 6th September 2013.

 

They were very busy back then and ask me to come back 16th September for full diagnosis. Which I did.

 

I told the service management that I have warranty until end of the month and showed the documents which the manager kept with him.*

 

Today I had call from service manager saying that they had full diagnosis and its the time chain and tensioner making noise.

 

*He told me he contact head office and they are saying the engine is not in warranty.

 

Why is that?

 

Any idea?

 

I was told when I bought the car from my company that the engine has two years warranty. As it was fixed by main dealer.

They should provide free labour also.

 

Service manager told me I can contact head office directly myself and C.C him in the emails.*

 

My question is where do I stand with warranty?

 

I have all the paperwork.*

 

Does head office do like this always?*

 

If they delay in response.

 

Can I repair the car and claim the cost back?*

 

Last two services from independent garage was done using mercedes original parts including 5w30 low ash oil.

[innocent_man]

If mercedes reject my warranty claim what is the process to claim the cost from any auto company?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

so you've roughly done 50k on the new engine fitted 2yrs ago.

from what I can research its recommended to change the timing chain at 100 - 200k

 

so it making a noise seems wrong.

 

forget the warranty

 

the engine as it was new will be covered by the sale of goods act

 

http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

 

dx

[innocent_man]

Just called the dealer who installed the engine in September 2011. The guy told me that my company paid a contribution for this engine, so it was not under 100 percent warranty back then. But because my company paid contribution the new engine comes with 2 years mercedes guarantee, not just a dealer warranty.

 

So there is some hope. Now I will call the head office.

[dx100uk]

you keep going on about warranty

 

that in ADDITION to your rights under SOGA

 

it does not replace SOGA

 

dx

[heliosuk]

You need to find if it was a short or full engine fitted in 2011.

 

If a short engine was fitted and most likely was in order to limit costs on a goodwill claim

then there will be no warranty on the timing chain assy, head or ancillary parts and SOGA will definitely not apply.

 

If it was a full engine then MB will usually honour the warranty

 

however they can stipulate in this sort of instance that the engine is subsequently serviced by a MB dealer for the period of the warranty.

 

However this is rare but I have seen conditional warranties before on goodwill claims.

[innocent_man]

They charge 9k for that engine and I am sure it was full engine. The service manager told me in an email that initially mercedes reject the claim earlier because

(DECISION ACCORDING TO WARRANTY GUIDELINES

DECISION BASED ON OPERATING TIME/MILEAGE)

 

Time? Less than two years since engine changed.

Milage? Just 45k after engine replacement.

 

They are not even talking about service from other than merc dealer. Intially they decline the claim bcoz time (6) years old car. Secondly because it has 150k plus on clock. Both things has nothing to do with new engine.

 

What If I fit a new clutch tomorrow and after 2 months go back and complaint about it. What will be the response? Oh your car is too old so clutch has no warranty. Is it?

 

If that is the case then they shouldn't publish in big words ( Mercedes parts come with two years warranty, labour paid if it was fitted by mercedes dealer).

 

 

*

[heliosuk]

This is a standard computer reply and would appear to be an error on the part of the dealer. What should happen is a standard claim under "parts warranty" . The response you have received suggests they have submitted a standard goodwill claim against the car as a whole and received a standard automated response.

 

If you are in the home counties or anywhere else for that matter then I can see easily see £9K for a short engine change at a dealer as it's the labour costs that ramp up the bill.

 

What If I fit a new clutch tomorrow and after 2 months go back and complaint about it. What will be the response? Oh your car is too old so clutch has no warranty. Is it?

 

If that is the case then they shouldn't publish in big words ( Mercedes parts come with two years warranty, labour paid if it was fitted by mercedes dealer).

 

Why don't you listen and act on good advice rather than joining the SOGA club who instinctively think you have a case. At the moment you don't. You have little or no evidence to challenge and obviously along with a member of the SOGA fixes all brigade understand how the out of warranty system works for all manufacturers. Of course all cars work fault free forever be they new or second hand and don't worry SOGA fixes all the worlds consumer issues.......it does not!

 

Do what I say and get confirmation as to whether or not it was a full or short engine. The cost you have is irrelevant and proves nothing. When you have this definitive confirmation then you have a sound basis as to how to proceed with the remote possibility that there may be a case to resort to SOGA and use it properly as it was designed to be used.

[innocent_man]

I am not going for SOGA stuff any time sooner because the initial claim was rejected by the computer. Now the case has opened by myself with mercedes head office who are investigating. The dealer ask me alot of information yesterday and today he told me that mercedes will response him soon.Lets say they also reject my claim then I can appeal to CEO.If that plan also fail then the last hope is solicitor or claim court.But I am wondering if I should go for repair and claim the cost later.Any idea? Is it easy to get money from Mercedes later If I am on right?

[sailor sam]

Have you been offered (or asked for) a courtesy car while yours is off the road?

 

Iv'e read through the thread and to be honest, i'm surprised that Helio states that "you do not have a case". I don't see how he can state that from the information that you have provided. Also the concept of the SOGA is to provide the consumer with an avenue to go down if he/she has been un-fairly treated or has been dis-advantaged by a professional body (or individual). Each case is dealt with on merit and at the end of the day, a district judge will decide whether there has been a breach of the SOGA or not.

 

From my experience, if you buy a brand new engine direct from the manufacturer and is subsequently fitted by their approved mechanics, then (providing it is serviced according to their schedule/specs) the manufacturer's warranty should cover any 'defects' attributed to sub-standard workmanship or components. I think it unlikely that MB would supply and fit a new incomplete unit (short engine) to marry up with existing or older components. I am assuming that the 'new' engine fitted in 2011 was not because of a old warranty claim but by the request of the then owner. As such, I cannot see where any "good will" comes into this.

 

Unless i've read this wrong, the car was fitted with a brand new engine supplied and fitted by the manufacturer. 50k and under 2 years later, it develops a fault. Providing that fault is not a result of normal wear and tear or poor maintenance on the part of the OP, then the manufacturer should honour it's warranty. Otherwise the OP has the option of seeking face to face professional legal advice with the view of pursuing a claim through the Civil Court process using the SOGA.

 

As it stands, I don't think anyone here can categorically say that the OP "dosn't have a case".

[innocent_man]

Have you been offered (or asked for) a courtesy car while yours is off the road? .

 

Service team manager asked me if I want a car but because the courtesy was not PCO registered it was not use of me.

 

So I am driving my wife's car since then. I am thinking to go back and ask for courtesy tomorrow. So they may quickly repair.

[heliosuk]

I certainly have not stated that there is no case at all. If you read what the OP has posted.

 

New engine fitted by Mercedes. It is not clear if it is a full engine or a short engine. This will make a massive amount of difference to if there is a case or not

 

When this engine was fitted the owner had to make a contribution as the vehicle was out of it's normal warranty period. Therefore it has to have been a goodwill claim.

 

In order to limit costs in cases like this, manufacturers will normally only allow a short engine to be fitted though this depends on the failure mode. A short engine would not normally come with timing gear, cylinder heads or any ancillary items.

 

As the most common version of a S320 in the UK is the V6 diesel then the £9K repair bill does indicate a short engine. It follows then that the timing chain would be the original and possibly not changed and thus no warranty would apply or SOGA.

 

Again what is not clear is if the £9K was the bill for the customer contribution side or the total cost of repair. If it is the contribution then most likely it was a full engine.

 

However, with goodwill repairs, warranty sometimes does not transfer with a change of ownership.

 

The OP also needs to be aware as well that he is not automatically entitled to a courtesy car, this is purely at the discretion of the dealership and MB.

 

So essentially you are in MB's hands at the moment. If the response comes back negative and it is a full engine that has been fitted there might be grounds to pursuit but this is far from clear cut at the moment.

 

The next thing is the OP mentions PCO registration of a loan car. This indicates that it is used for private higher and if MB find out will pretty much kill off the issue anyway as the vehicle is used for hire or reward.

[innocent_man]

I certainly have not stated that there is no case at all. If you read what the OP has posted.

 

New engine fitted by Mercedes. It is not clear if it is a full engine or a short engine. This will make a massive amount of difference to if there is a case or not

 

When this engine was fitted the owner had to make a contribution as the vehicle was out of it's normal warranty period. Therefore it has to have been a goodwill claim.

 

In order to limit costs in cases like this, manufacturers will normally only allow a short engine to be fitted though this depends on the failure mode. A short engine would not normally come with timing gear, cylinder heads or any ancillary items.

 

As the most common version of a S320 in the UK is the V6 diesel then the £9K repair bill does indicate a short engine. It follows then that the timing chain would be the original and possibly not changed and thus no warranty would apply or SOGA.

 

Again what is not clear is if the £9K was the bill for the customer contribution side or the total cost of repair. If it is the contribution then most likely it was a full engine.

 

However, with goodwill repairs, warranty sometimes does not transfer with a change of ownership.

 

The OP also needs to be aware as well that he is not automatically entitled to a courtesy car, this is purely at the discretion of the dealership and MB.

 

So essentially you are in MB's hands at the moment. If the response comes back negative and it is a full engine that has been fitted there might be grounds to pursuit but this is far from clear cut at the moment.

 

The next thing is the OP mentions PCO registration of a loan car. This indicates that it is used for private higher and if MB find out will pretty much kill off the issue anyway as the vehicle is used for hire or reward.

 

 

I guess you had a hard day at work today. No problem.

 

The 9k was 50 percent of the original cost my company paid as contribution.

 

I called the dealer who fitted the engine. He told me there is absolutely warranty for you or any body you sell this vehicle too.

 

PCO: this car was purchased by a chauffeur company at first place to run it for hire, so mercedes is very well aware of that.

 

You the best way to relac after work is hot bath and a glass of hot milk.

[sailor sam]

Taken from post #8;

 

"Why don't you listen and act on good advice rather than joining the SOGA club who instinctively think you have a case. At the moment you don't."

 

But hey ho. I am interested to know why there was a 50% contribution toward the replacement engine by MB? Was it due to a previous warranty issue?

[sailor sam]

I guess you had a hard day at work today. No problem.

 

The 9k was 50 percent of the original cost my company paid as contribution.

 

I called the dealer who fitted the engine. He told me there is absolutely warranty for you or any body you sell this vehicle too.

 

PCO: this car was purchased by a chauffeur company at first place to run it for hire, so mercedes is very well aware of that.

 

You the best way to relac after work is hot bath and a glass of hot milk.

 

Can we clarify then that the 'original cost' was in fact £18k? 9k being the amount your company paid? Or am I being thick?

[heliosuk]

The 50% contribution is pretty routine and based on age and mileage. As I have said, based on a £9K bill and the fact it's a 50% contribution of £18k it's pretty obvious it was a full engine which now starts to make sense. In the bigger picture of things one assumes that the warranty on this repair exists due to the fact it is a full engine which would be the case if the car was still owned by the previous owner as they had paid for it. I have also pointed out that in these instances the warranty does not necessarily transfer. You need to refer to the terms and conditions of the warranty but bear in mind it is warranty on a goodwill repair that someone else has paid for and this changes the ball game so to speak.

 

I deal with these sort of things on a daily basis and if this scenario came across my desk I'd base it on the following:

 

1. Who has paid for what and why in the past.

2. Who is the claimant.

3. Where was the car bought from

4. Loyalty to brand in terms of servicing

5. Usage of the car

 

With what has been posted it would score very low and the response is likely to be sorry but no.

 

What I am ultimately saying here is that this is not as straight forward as it seems and expect a battle. Hopefully MB will come through for you but if they do I'm pretty sure it will be another goodwill sort of situation. The key to this is if the warranty transfers on a goodwill repair.

 

As regards SOGA....you have nowhere to go as you personally didn't pay for the repair.

 

Hope it works out for you sincerely but I can't see it if MB are holders of what you have posted here.

[heliosuk]

Forgot to add that the statement that the car has absolutely warranty for you or any body you sell this vehicle too is not exactly true especially if in use as a PCO. Further MB will not necessarily be aware of this, only the dealer but if MB who you hope ultimately foot the bill finds out it will be a no, no, .

 

And as regards a hard day at the office.....yes it is hard making decisions, fixing faults and fending off non existent claims of liability where people seem to think they can get something for nothing so this sort of stuff is routine for me and I'm quite relaxed about it all. At the end of the day it's not my money at risk and if it was I know how to deal with it.

[sailor sam]

A couple of things Helio;

 

The OP states he bought the car for "personal use" and not for hire/reward. Secondly what repair are you referring to when you you say; " As regards SOGA....you have nowhere to go as you personally didn't pay for the repair"? We still don't know why the car had a replacement engine in 2011 and why MB contributed 50% of the cost so how do you know that the OP has "nowhere to go" in relation to the SOGA? When the OP bought the car, he also should of acquired his rights to any remaining manufacturers warranty PROVIDING that the terms that go with the warranty have been met. Having said that, the OP's contract is in fact with the seller of the vehicle. So technically a claim under the SOGA would probably have to be aimed at the seller.

 

As i've already pointed out, that would be for a judge to decide and that the OP should take face to face advice on that. I don't think it is appropriate for you to keep shooting the chances of the OP using the SOGA down in flames on the information provided.

[sailor sam]

OK. I've thought this through a bit more and the following needs to be considered in relation to a possible claim under the SOGA.

 

When did the OP purchase the car? Has the OP formally made the seller (his company) aware of the issue and given them the opportunity to resolve? It could be the case (as Helio suggests) that the warranty applies to whoever paid for the replacement engine thus meaning it would be them to make a claim under the warranty.

 

HOWEVER, this still dosn't change the fact that the OP has statutory rights under the SOGA. But in the event of the OP having to rely on the SOGA, it would mean that the seller would be the respondent in such an application in my opinion.

[innocent_man]

(We have had a response back from MB head office.*Several processes have had to be adhered to and followed.*We have processed a warranty claim for the repair works that has been refused. We have also processed a goodwill claim for the intial warranty rejection *which has also been refused.*At this point in time our hands are tied as MB will not be contributing to the repair as it stands.*I await your further instructions)

 

The dealer send me email this morning.*

[sailor sam]

Ok so now you may have to turn your attention to the seller because your contract is with them as you purchased the car from them.

 

I would advise that you now take face to face professional advise to explore your options. You could approach Trading Standards but you would have to get referred by the Citizens Advice Bureau;

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_protection_for_the_consumer_e/consumer_citizens_advice_consumer_service_e/if_you_need_more_help.htm

 

Please keep us posted on any developments.

[innocent_man]

Good news.

 

Came to pickup my car at merc brentford. The service manager tells me the same story as he stated in his email. But after 10 mints talk n telling him that I am going to pursue the case till definite come out. He said you better contact head office and ask them for the explanation.

 

Just call the head office and explain them. The guy at head office said well the car is old and time chain warranty is not for life. I afreed with him and then ask him if some one inform that the engine was changed 1 year and 11 months ago.

 

Gave him invoice number. Dates and 9, 700 figure which is 50 percent of the original cost.

 

He put me on hold and came back after two minutes with apology.

 

Yes you engine is in warranty sir. I am going to ask brentford why didn't they provide the full facts and invoice details which you gave them on the time you book you car in.

 

He said don't move your car. Just wait for my call and talk to the same person at brentford and tell them what I just tells you.

 

So I am in brentford waiting for the manager who went to lunch.

 

Why would they do this?

 

10 bloody days. May be its too hard work for them to change the time belt. Idiots.

[sailor sam]

Seem you whole problem was a lack of communication from the garage.

 

Let us know what happens.

[innocent_man]

Seem you whole problem was a lack of communication from the garage.

 

Let us know what happens.

 

There is twist in the story yet again. Will be back soon.

 

I can't believe the dealers (seems very smiley) would pull their customers legs. To do that they would extra mile.

 

NO NO NO to brentford mercedes. Please don't even look at them when you pass by on M4. Or at least curse them on they way in and out of London.

[heliosuk]

So what do you want to do innocent? Am I that wrong? There are a few options open to you but I am likely to be away for a week or so from Sunday. But of course it would seem I don't know what I am talking about so it's your choice. The offer is there.