Magistrates Court

[Kjh85]

I'll start from the beginning.

 

I have been a single parent for 7 years and claim IS, CT and HB.

 

I have a 7 year old and then in 2009 I met someone. I fell pregnant in the first 2 weeks or so, needless to say he wanted nothing to do with me. Around the same time I was offered a job so my claims all got cancelled but then the job fell through so made a rapid reclaim. Have been on them ever since.

 

Shortly after my sons birth in June 2010, his dad decided he wanted to have contact with him. This man lives around an hour and a half drive away from me and this time was unemployed. He used to come and see our child regularly. He found employment in jan 2011 in his hometown and his visits became to just a few hours in a Saturday with the occasional stop over.

 

We were very on and off during this time. We only saw each other once a week and it was very strained. However I fell pregnant again July 2011. It was at this point we thought maybe we should try and sort things out and this is where my drama begins........

 

As he lived so far we didn't want to just jump into living together so I agreed to get a loan so he could purchase a car to see us more regularly, at the same time he asked if his wages could be paid into my bank account as he had problems with his and this way I would be guaranteed the loan money every month. I agreed as I was under the impression that this was the start of good things. He got a job near to me so that he could see us more often.

 

At no point did he live with me. And I always kept track of his money in my bank so I knew what was his and what was mine.

 

After 2 months he decided he couldn't do it and got a job, closer to where he calls "home". However the wages continued into my account for the loan reason. He also registered his car at my address.

 

I was called for an IUC yesterday. Where they had statements from all his employers using my address as his address. I never knew a out this and when I asked him he said he did it so the bank details would correspond. They also had the vehicle being registered at mine too. And all my bank statements.

 

They also had a letter that had been sent to his mums regarding a debt he owed where she had sent it back sayi g he has never lived there and put my address as the forwarding address! This was back in 2010 when he was unemployed.

 

He also made a week claim for jsa last August using my address which I knew nothing about until yesterday.

 

So now it just looks like I'm guilty. They made me feel like a liar yesterday. All they said at the end was they may have to speak to him.

 

My solicitor said just to sit tight and wait for a court date so she obviously thinks I'm going to court.

 

I'm so scared!

[debt4get]

welcome to CAG a lot of the benefits advisors are in work at the moment, so it maybe some time later today before any adivce arrives, though there are people on here who will try and offer some advice for you....you have unfortunately put yourself in a really difficult position with the car being registered at your home, bank account, wages into account etc...none of us are here to judge and we will offer what advice we can....i see you already have a solicitor so that is a good first step, have they said how much the overpayment is you will be looking at? no one can tell you what will happen re prosecution or whatever. that unfortunately will be up to dwp and whether they think they can prove their case...they obviously still have to speak to your boyfriend, if he has any proof of residing somewhere else, rent, CT etc in his name that that is going to help...

[Kjh85]

He is not my boyfriend, we are not in a relationship. We are good friends and he's a good dad to our children.

 

As far as I know he has no bills apart from debt collection letters hence why he has no bills, he can't get credit and is dodging collectors.

 

I have no idea on the overpayment. At one stage they were saying October 2009 but I think that is my rapid reclaim date. Then the letter that was redirected from his mums was 2010 and his wages started going into my account sept 2011. So I don't know what date they are using.

 

His mums address is just in her name as far as I know. As is all the bills.

 

So I'm scr**ed basically.

 

I have never been in trouble in before, ever. I have 3 young children and am now seeking help for depression.

 

All I tried to do was help give us a chance at having a relationship and when that fell through just keep things good for the kids and help their dad out.

[Kjh85]

How do I subscribe to the thread please?

[renegadeimp]

You already are. Just make a post and it auto subs you, or click thread tools at the top of this thread.

[id6052]

It does appear that there is a significant amount of evidence that may go against you.

 

Do you know: -

 

• what address he provided for himself when registering the birth of your 2 children?
  
• whether he put you down as Next of Kin with any employers?
  

[Kjh85]

The birth Certs have same address as I genuinely don't remember anyone asking otherwise.

 

I am down as next of kin in one form( out of four) as this was when we were trying to sort things out and when the bank and loan arrangements were made. So at that time we were a couple.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Kjh85

[debt4get]

is he not on any electoral registers? proof of where he is living? or has been living? has he proof of where he is residing at the moment? if as you say he has never lived with you, then he must have something to say he was living somewhere else....utility bills, CT bills, rent anything at all....

[jadeybags]

If you want the un sugar coated opinion, they seem to have enough evidence to prosecute but I have seen evidence like this not reach a guilty verdict in court, so keep close to your solicitor. It's going to be a bumpy ride. Deby4get has a good point. If he's never lived with you, he hopefully has some proof he lived somewhere? Anything you can think of.

[Kjh85]

He has a passport and a driving licence but I have no idea where they are registered to, it's not my address that's for sure.

 

He lives on his mums sofa like I say and can't get credit, therefore has no bills. CT and rent are both in his mums name and he won't put his name on electoral roll due to his debts.

[Kjh85]

What sort of sentence am I looking at? From my own calculations, if they're saying its from Sept 2011 it's about £12,000 overpayment. If they're going off earlier dates, (I don't know if they can) then it'll obviously be more.

[renegadeimp]

Sentence? You are thinking too far ahead. You need to give them as much info as you can. Remember each case is done independently and taken on its own merits. Mitigating circumstances and all that jazz.

[Kjh85]

So if he can find documents with his mums address on, what do I do? Send them in? Photocopies? Let my solicitor know?

 

She's told me to let her know if/when I recieve more news and that's it.

 

Also is there any way I can find out where his driving licence and passport are registered to? Or is that something he will have to provide?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Kjh85

[Kjh85]

Would debt collection letters sent to his mums count as bills? I know there's at least a couple of those.

 

Also I do t know if this is relevant but he is still married to someone else. Divorce proceeds are currently ongoing so I don't think it will be a factor as they have been separated since 2006?

 

I'm also thinking of writing a statement, pretty much what I said above as I don't think I got it across very well at the iuc as I was so nervous and my baby was crying

Edited January 26, 2013 by Kjh85

[Kjh85]

Anyone?

[id6052]

normally utility bills elsewhere would help as why would he be paying these at an address he did not live at

debt collectors bills elsewhere may not carry much weight, as it does not really prove he lives there, i often receive debt collectors bills for people who no longer live in my house, however if the correspondence shows he is paying those bills, they may take into account

 

i am afraid that him still being married to a former partner does not help much, as it does not preclude him living with you

 

at the end of the day, the DM will balance up all the evidence, and determine whether you should be treated as a couple, so you should submit any any evidence that helps you

Edited January 26, 2013 by id6052

[Kjh85]

He doesn't have any utility bills. He gives his mum towards them but his name isn't actually on anything he says.

 

But then again his name isn't in any of my utility bills either so I don't know if that helps.

 

I can't help but feel I'm done for. There's no way I can prove anything

[id6052]

some useful information

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/c1annxa.pdf

 

when looking at LT cases, the DM normally considers 6 factors

 

1. shared household
   
2. stability of relationship
   
3. financial arrangements
   
4. children together
   
5. sexual relationship
   
6. public recognition of relationship
   

[id6052]

I honestly think the evidence you have stated is stacked against you at the moment

 

Common household/connections to your address:

He registered his car to your address

He has told employers he was living at your address

He made a claim for JSA at your address

He gave your address on both birth certificates

No tenancy elsewhere, his mother told the DWP that he was living at your address

 

Stability of relationship

2 children, Next of Kin with employer, mother’s letter

 

Joint finances:

His wages have been getting paid into your bank account

You took out a loan for him to purchase a car, even though he was working and you were on benefits

 

Sexual Relationship/Children together

2009 and 2011, you had children together

 

Public acknowledgement

Next of kin, mother’s letter

[Kjh85]

His mum didnt tell DWP that he didn't live there, it was a letter chasing him up for council tax debts from his local borough. They also came knocking at my door and I told them he didn't live with me.

His mum hasn't told DWP anything. Would it help if she did?

 

I just don't know what to do. Everything is against me by the looks of things.

 

If/when I can get any documents, how do I make DWP aware of them?

[id6052]

Sorry, I thought you meant letter was from DWP rather than Council, either way the DWP still have the letter.

 

If you want to submit letters from him and his mum explaining the situation, the DM will take it into consideration.

 

Although official documents normally carry more weight, I would suggest looking into passport and driving licence addresses, also what address does his doctor or dentist hold?

[id6052]

You should have contact details from the IUC letter that you received

[Kjh85]

I'm going to ask him about his driving licence and passport, can you request copies from then if he doesn't have originals? Or is the address actually in his passport? He said he can't find his driving licence, so I'm hoping he can get a copy?

 

I have no idea about a doctor or dentist. I'm not sure if he's been registered with one since leaving the army.

 

Would they accept photocopies? As I don't really want to send originals in case they say they haven't recieved them and I'm left with nothing.

 

So far he's found a debt letter and a letter about his pension. The pension letter is dated sept 2011 and debt letter June 2012. And a letter from a previous employer but that's 2011 too

[id6052]

If his mother is going to write a letter saying he was living with her, a couple of points that she might need to consider

 

Did she advise the Council Tax dept? If not, was she receiving any discounts that she might not have been entitled to?

 

Also if she did not delare him on electoral form, there is a possibility she could be fined for making a false declaration.

[Kjh85]

Oh gosh I don't know. All I know is that she's retired and I'm pretty sure she's classed as disabled.

 

I think I've resigned myself to the fact I'm going to court. I just can't see any other way. I'm so scared of going to prison and then my children will have no one