Landlady refuses to return deposit.

[newmoses]

Tenancy deposit not refunded

i need a bit of help for my nephew please.

 

He, his wife and 5 children rented a house and paid £3,000.00 deposit and an advance in rent of £6,000.00.

 

They applied for housing benefit but could not get the landladys address as she claimed she was on witness protection, so while they were waiting for the housing benefit to be sorted, they got into arrears.

 

Then H.B. lapsed, and they had to start a new claim.

 

Eventually, the council gave them the address of the landlord.......

 

Due to the arrears the landlady gave them an eviction notice........To cut a long story short, to date, she has not given them their deposit back.

 

She tried to claim that the property was untidy and trashed, but my nephew has photographic eveidence and video evidence that the whole house was decorated and a new carpet laid in the lounge.He also has witnesses to the decorating because they were the ones who helped him decorate.

 

I think the landlady has spent the deposit and not protected it under the Tenancy Deposit Protection scheme..

 

I drafted a Notice Before Action requesting the landlady pays the deposit back within 14 days and that she gives documentation that the deposit is protected.

 

So far ,after 9 days, no reply.The landlady could easily have paid back the deposit minus the rent arrears, but she has failed to do so.In the letter, I have threatened her with a county court summons if the deposit is not paid by 18th September..

 

Any more help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

P.S. My nephew rented the property for 2 years and in that time, never got any info. from the landlady that his deposit was protected.

Edited September 11, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[citizenB]

You might want to have a word with Shelter - they have a department that deals specifically with this type of issue.

 

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/how_we_can_help/housing_advice_helpline

 

 

Free advice helpline

 

0808 800 4444

 

8am-8pm Monday-Friday

8am-5pm Saturday-Sunday

[raydetinu]

If deposit not protected, then should get it back, LL may claim for up paid rent, so you need record of what has been paid up to when they left.

Was there an inventory condition report done when they moved in, if not then LL will a problem proving anything.

Photos on exit always a good thing.

[newmoses]

Latest update:- I sent a NOTICE BEFORE ACTION letter to the landlady giving her 14 days to respond.The letter was signed for but no response after 17 days so I took out a summons against her for the £3,000.00 she owes my nephew.My nephew checked with the 4 main TDS schemes and come up with no result, so we can assume that the deposit was not protected.My nephew also states that he and his wife gave £15,000.00 rent up front.There was no inventory condition report done or given either.Looking forward to ripping her to pieces in court.

[newmoses]

It looks like I am having to represent my nephew in Tewkesbury County Court.

 

His ex landlady has not put the £3,000.00 deposit into a secure scheme, and can't come up with the money.my nephew input all the relevant info. into the 4 schemes that come up on the internet, and drew a blank every time.I have asked the LL for the name of the scheme.

 

She has refused to reply.She also has never had the electrics checked or the gas checked which is a legal requirement annually.She served my nephew with a "Section 21" notice, but that is invalid as she never secured the deposit in a TDPS.

 

She has claimed that she had to replace all of the kitchen worktops, Belfast sink, taps, fridge freezer and cooker.However,when I emailed her asking for receipts for the items she allegedly had to replace, she has not come up with any of them.Instead,she sent me an invoice from TDS, of [address removed].(That is where she lives, and according to her, rents the top floor.

 

The company TDS is not found on the internet, nor at Companies house, as it is a limited company.However, there is a vat number which is VAT No. [removed].Can I find out any information from this about the company, and where would I look?.Back to County Court.Providing I win the case,How much can I claim per hour?.I think it used to be around £9.45.And how much can I claim for fuel costs per mile?.Is there a link to the laws which I can quote for these expenses?.And how much can I claim for each document i print off at home?.

 

so far, the evidence I have against this unscrupulous, perjuring, LL is

 

1.No TDPS where the deposit is supposed to be kept...

 

2.no electrical safety checks in at least 2 years 6 months...

 

3.Only 1 gas safety check in 2 years 6 months...

 

3.Photographic and video evidence of the premises being decorated prior to eviction, as well as witness statement from the people who helped decorate.(a new carpet was also laid)...

 

4.No EPC check...

 

5.No receipts for appliances/equipment allegedly replaced...

 

6. A 3 page letter sent to my nephew detailing their alleged costs for replacing items/appliances where the prices quoted differ to the ones i have from an invoice from TDS that was emailed to me...

 

7.Text messages from the first week of the tenancy start detailing mould in the bathroom and one bedroom, and promises from the LL to come over and sort the problem.It never happened, as the LL kept making excuses...

 

8.Emails that I sent to her requesting documents, answers to questions etc., and her replies back to me...

 

9.No tenency agreement was ever given to the tenant...I think I have plenty of evidence to win the case by showing how the LL has broken the law by not doing what she is legally bound to do, discrepancies in the so called bill for replacement of items/remedial work etc.showing that she is a liar.

 

Any final help with links, laws, documents etc would be a great help.

Edited October 5, 2013 by citizenB

[honeybee13]

Hello newmoses.

 

Some paragraphs would be useful if you're able to put them in please.

 

HB

[Lea_HTH]

You're clearly not a lawyer, or you wouldn't be asking for advice on here - so, you won't be doing any 'representing' of your nephew in court. The judge simply won't hear you as you have no rights of audience. You can, however, sit next to your nephew in court and assist him - the judge may even allow you to speak loud enough so he/she can hear, but you cannot freely address the judge without his/her permission, and certainly not as a 'representative'.

 

In addition, I note that you keep saying 'I wrote to the LL', 'I issued the letter before action', 'I filed the claim'. I am hoping you do not mean YOU did those things in YOUR name, but assisted your nephew in HIS name?

 

Because if you issued in your own name, or signed on your nephew's behalf, your claim is automatically defective and will be struck out.

 

YOU are not entitled to any costs, you're not a lawyer. Your NEPHEW might be entitled if HE did any of the research etc., but he can't claim for YOU doing it - because you're not a lawyer.

[newmoses]

LEA_NTH, many thanks for your input. I have done all the letters, for my nephew.He has read and signed them and sent them off from his area of Ilfracombe.I live in Nottingham.So I cannot ask the LL questions?. I cannot ask her about her discrepancies?. My nephew cannot use me as his representative?.My nephew is only 22 and has never been to county court, so how would he know what to say,if I can't cross examine the LL on his behalf.?

[raydetinu]

You cannot address any witness or defendant directly in court, however as Leah says you may assist and tell your nephew what to say.

Good luck anyway.

just a few points.

• There is no requirement for electrical installation too be checked, however the LL has a duty of care to make sure it is in good order.
  
• Smoke alarms are mandatory.
  
• Gas certificate is mandatory and if he was not given a copy or it was done, then should have been reported to the HSE, via website.
  
• EPC cert is mandatory and if not done then Trading Standards are the ones who run the scheme..
  
• The LL does no have to provide receipts for replacement of items, but it must fair and justified and take into account age, and wear and tear. ( cant replace at new for old ).
  
• Mould, if Toxic should be reported to the Environmental health dept. of council to deal with, if LL does not! However you can claim for this as it affected the property/amenity.
  

[Lea_HTH]

At least the paperwork is properly signed then.

 

You're not a lawyer, so you have no rights of audience - I covered that in my first post, but to clarify, the answers to your first three questions are No, No and No.

 

To answer your final question, if he's old enough to sue, he's old enoough to open his mouth in court. You don't have any more experience than he does, since neither of you are lawyers, but it's his case, so he'll have to speak.

 

You could ask the judge for permission to speak on his behalf, but it depends on the judge whether she/he would allow that if there is no apparent reason why your nephew can't speak for himself. It'll almost certainly just be listed for a hearing since it involves rent/deposit issues, so if it goes to trial your nephew should get a solicitor.

[newmoses]

You're clearly not a lawyer, or you wouldn't be asking for advice on here - so, you won't be doing any 'representing' of your nephew in court. The judge simply won't hear you as you have no rights of audience. You can, however, sit next to your nephew in court and assist him - the judge may even allow you to speak loud enough so he/she can hear, but you cannot freely address the judge without his/her permission, and certainly not as a 'representative'.

 

In addition, I note that you keep saying 'I wrote to the LL', 'I issued the letter before action', 'I filed the claim'. I am hoping you do not mean YOU did those things in YOUR name, but assisted your nephew in HIS name?

 

Because if you issued in your own name, or signed on your nephew's behalf, your claim is automatically defective and will be struck out.

 

YOU are not entitled to any costs, you're not a lawyer. Your NEPHEW might be entitled if HE did any of the research etc., but he can't claim for YOU doing it - because you're not a lawyer.

Having done some research,I can actually speak for mt nephew as a "Lay Representative".Looks like I will be cross examining the defendant then.

[raydetinu]

good luck! hope it works out for you.

[Lea_HTH]

Having done some research,I can actually speak for mt nephew as a "Lay Representative".Looks like I will be cross examining the defendant then.

 

I covered that with 'you can't address the judge without his/her permission'. That includes as a lay representative.

 

Lay reps can speak for the person they are helping IF the judge allows them to. It is highly UNLIKELY that a judge will allow examination in chief or cross-examination by a lay rep. I've never seen it happen in court, EVER, largely because both things are skills that are learnt and honed from practice, and a lay person doesn't have the kind of exposure needed to gain such experience. It's not like television.

 

Good luck though - I think your nephew is going to need it.

[Kayyak]

I guess from your research that you're aware the landlady HAS to give the deposit back before issuing a s21 notice (where no scheme has been used). Had she used a scheme, they would require evidence of her receipts in order to resolve disputes/decide the proportion payable to the tenant.

Also, Environmental Health Housing could request to see her up to date annual gas certificate and electrical installation (lasts 5 years).

[mariner51]

There is currently no requirement for a valid elec safety Cert for non-HMO properties, though a sensible precaution for H&S risk assessment.

Any new electrical work on property would require an NICEEC for work carried out.

 

EPC (valid 10 yr) is required to be shown at start of any T (pref when advertised)

Edited October 9, 2013 by mariner51

[newmoses]

An electrical safety check must be commissioned prior to the commencement of a tenancy, and must be carried out by a competent person (a Part P qualified electrician in kitchens and bathrooms) to ensure that the electricity supply, and all appliances, are legal. This includes supplying instruction books where needed for safe use. IMPORTANT: Failure to comply with the Electrical Regulations may constitute a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 that carries a maximum penalty on summary conviction of a £5000 fine and/or six months imprisonment. This Legislation means that Landlords have a legal obligation and a duty of care to tenants to ensure that the electrical installation and the electrical equipment supplied is safe. The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations have been mandatory since 1st January 1997. They state that all electrical appliances with let accommodation must be safe. This applies to both new and second-hand appliances and covers all electrical items supplied for the intended use of the Tenant. The regulations also cover fixed appliances such as cookers etc. The only method of insuring that these appliances are safe is to have them tested by a trained electrical engineer using the portable appliance testing equipment, known as a (PAT) test.

[newmoses]

A Guide to BrinGinG

And defendinG

A SmAll clAim

April 2013

section 8 states:-McKenzie Friends – a mcKenzie friend is a person who helps someone appearing in court. they don’t need

to be legally qualif ied and might be a family member or a neighbour. Some people do training to become a

mcKenzie friend but this will focus on how to offer emotional and practical support rather than legal advice.

•

Lay representative – in small claims hearings a party may arrange for another adult to represent them even

though this person is not legally qualif ied. You may wish to consider this if you are nervous about speaking

at the hearing and know a suitable person who would be willing to support you, but you will be expected to

be present.

 

I'm all ready for the big day.I represented myself agains a defendant at Boston County Court.She even got a barrister, but I ripped them both to pieces.I was ruthless and still am.The judge even commended me on the work I ahd done and presented.That was in 1998.I had an out of court settlement in 2010, and one more recently in july this year against Quinn insurance. i had a so called bus lane contravention quashed in august.I am ready for the next case.

[mariner51]

You are obviously more experienced in LL&T legislation than more senior members here.

 

I wonder if LandlordZone (residential forum) advisers would concur with your interpretations?

 

Worth a post on LLZ.

 

Lower Court Judgements can be negative as well as favourable, despite the Law, hencer the need for the Appeal process.

Edited October 10, 2013 by mariner51

[raydetinu]

Pat tests only apply to appliances? There is no requirement for the electrical installation to be subject to a test or certification prior to a tenancy let other than common law, for duty of care.

see.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/electrical-safety

[newmoses]

I went to Gloucester County Court on Monday 31st March, but the Judge adjourned the case, due to a few errors. My Nephew could not be the claimant as it was his wifes name only on the Tenancy Agreement, so an amendment was needed.Also, as I stated in a covering letter to the judge that I was wanting to make a claim for an additional 3X the deposit amount, the covering letter I included a few months ago was not acceptable in law, so again another amendment was needed.They have now both been done, and copies sent to the landlady...The landlady never got off lightly though.When asked by the Judge if she received a deposit, she replied "Yes".When asked if she protected it, she said,"I tried to"....then the Judge interrupted her and again asked if she protected the deposit.She again replied,"Well, I tried"....again the Judge interrupted and asked her the same question for the third time.I think the landlady then realised that the Judge wanted a YES or NO answer, so she replied "No"..When asked why, she replied "I tried to protect it, but because it was such a large amount, I was told that I couldn't protect it until I had a signed Tenancy Agreement".The Judge obviously knew she was lying.The case will now be heard at a later date, but the judge gave the go ahead for my Niece to make the claim, plus the additional 3X the amount, plus I can use the laws and case studies that I have included.I don't think the landlady was very impressed.I am 100% certain the Judge will award my niece 3X the deposit paid.Incidentally,I have found out that the landlady signed up with MyDeposits in may 2013, paying a £36.00 subscription fee.not bad considering the deposit should have been protected by 5th May 2011(pre April 6th 2012).

[raydetinu]

good luck, and please keep us informed.

[newmoses]

Got a date of 16th July at 10.00. I managed to change some days at work in order to attend the hearing.All of a sudden, the landlady has decided to charge for 130 hours labour at £10.00 per hour instead of 100 hours at £6.00 per hour.She is also claiming for the replacement of 5 carpets totalling over £1,100.00, even though she only has 1 receipt for £370.00.She is claiming that her partner removed and disposed of the so called 5 carpets and underlay and has charged her £180.00, even though the refuge amenity site 1 mile away takes everything including rubble, oil, batteries etc, oh and there is no receipt for the alleged disposal.What the landlady is doing, is trying to inflate what she is claiming for alleged damaged items, inflating the prices to get to as near as £9,000.00 as she can, then when the Judge rules against her for not protecting the deposit, the difference between what she is claiming and what she has to pay my niece will, be small enough for her to be able to pay.....Her Scotch Schedule differs so much to her so called invoices.There are errors, discrepancies, and inconsistencies galore. She is even alleging that she withdrew the deposit from her bank account and put it in "an account" for safe keeping.However, after 2 attempts asking for her bank details showing the withdrawal and placement into another account, she has so far failed to come up with the proof.She has until 22nd May to disclose all the relevant information.I have also asked twice for documentary evidence that she was told that because the deposit of £3,000.00 was such a large amount, she could not protect the deposit until she has a signed tenancy agreement.Again she has failed to disclose any information.I am suprised the Judge has not thrown her defence out and entered judgement against her.

[raydetinu]

The judge would want evidence that the carpets did in fact need replacing? before allowing anything. even then wear and tear would need to be deducted.

Sounds cut and dried, but you never know. receipts are useful but have to be reasonable. Photos are the best evidence.

[newmoses]

The landlady has some photos which she says are of the house prior to letting it even though she did not do an inventory Condition report prior to my niece taking the property, nor did the landlady do an I.C.R. before my Niece left, even though she was asked to twice.The landlady also has photos of the alleged condition of the house after my niece left. I also have photos of the condition of the house after my Neice, her husband and 2 friends spent a week decorating it throughout(where needed), or touching up areas that were scuffed.......Some receipts the landlady disclosed show no date on the receipts,so the cost of the items she allegedly purchased are in dispute. Some items she is claiming are in dispute as there are no receipts at all.She also spent money at B & Q using a trade discount card that was in the name of a male, so she has committed fraud by claiming to be someone she isn't..She has not disclosed any details of allegedly being told that the deposit cannot be protected until she has a signed Tenancy Agreement, nor has she disclosed details of withdrawing the £3,000.00 deposit from her own bank account and putting it into "an account" for safe keeping.....She was aware of mould/damp issues in the bathroom, 2 bedrooms, and lounge.Her builder by his own admission states in a text message we have, that "It is old house syndrome really, and needs a lot of remedial work which could take 2-3 weeks"........Looks like they have both perjured themselves too.And finally, it looks like the landlady has been claiming JSA even though she was raking in £625.00 a month for the rent on her house(and i bet she never declared the house and its revenue to the DWP), and neither has she declared her earnings to HMRC as there is nothing on her bank statements showing any tax returns.

[raydetinu]

Do not concern yourself with LL personal circumstances!

Your case is strong for non-protection, and any claim for damages will be dealt with by the judge, and he will take into account wear and tear etc.