Natwest Loans Outstanding

[hillbilly20]

I am trying to assist my Wife.

 

She has two debts with Natwest

- an old overdraft and

an old personal loan.

 

Total value of these debts are around £6,200.

 

For the last 3 years Natwest have been accepting £1 a month on each but recently they began to get a bit heavy.

My Wife has offered to increase the payments to £2 on each

but they have now said that they will get an 'external agent' to make contact with her.

 

I have written to Natwest explaining that I am willing to assist me wife by the payment of a one off £1250

(which represents about 20% of the o/s balance).

 

I gave them until today (31/8/2013) and they have not responded.

 

I am a bit surprised I must admit.

I told them that their only alternative was to make her bankrupt and then they would get none of their money.

 

 

Any suggestions from anyone?

 

Regards

 

A

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi welcome to CAG,

 

When did you post this offer? The bank would need at least 14 days to reply.

 

If these debts are not in dispute the bank may well decide to either default the accounts and sell the debts or leave the accounts live and assign a DCA to manage and collect the debts on the banks behalf.

 

I would be surprised if the bank will accept a 20% f & f offer but give them time to reply.

[ims21]

Hi and welcome along.

 

Have both or either of these accounts been defaulted? I would imagine that they have given the time span you are talking about.

 

If by any chance they haven't, has the interest been frozen?

 

On the loan account are there any unlawful charges that can be reclaimed such as late payment fees, charges for letters etc. etc.?

 

Is there any mis-sold PPI on the loan?

 

If the bank farm these out to a collection company to act on their behalf, you are under no obligation to deal with them so you can carry on paying the bank direct.

 

From a full and final perspective, it may be better for you if the debts were sold on as the debt purchaser may accept a lower figure in settlement than the bank will. This is because they would pay a pittance for the debts and may take a business decision that as long as they make a profit on the deal then they would be happy. They will try to maximise that profit though.

 

As your offer date has expired, you can consider the offer withdrawn while you investigate the charges that I mentioned earlier.

 

Before making any further offers, consider the claiming of any charges so that you can establish what the actual amount due is and then base your full and final offer on that resultant figure.

 

In respect of the overdraft, there may be a chance of getting some charges back on this too but this will depend on how the bank have treated your wife.

 

Can you give an idea as to what difficulties your wife experienced which caused the accounts to get into trouble together with dates etc.

[citizenB]

Any payment protection insurance on the loan ?

 

Oops.. sorry this question had already been asked:oops:

Edited August 31, 2013 by citizenB

[hillbilly20]

Thanks Guys for responding - I am surprised that a response was so fast.

 

I will try and cover all aspects of what you have all said.

 

I didnt consider the 14 days - I only wrote to them on 20th Aug so I suppose that they've had 11 days but some of these have not been working days.

 

The difficulties that my Wife was in was actually mine - I lost my job and so our family income dropped through the floor. Its another reason why I am working hard to help her as I feel that its actually my fault.

 

I cannot answer any of the other questions and she does not know so if the debt is sold on then I will renew my approach by asking for a full account of all sums owed including any fees that have been levied. Once I know this then I can negotiate with the new people (even though I know that I do not have to as my contract is with Natwest not them).

 

Thanks again guys - I will post any updated information on the thread.

 

Regards

 

A

[ims21]

In respect of the overdraft, when you lost your job and fell into some difficulties, did you let the bank know?

 

If you don't have the data on these accounts such as the loan agreement and statements of account then if it ere me I would send the bank a Subject Access Request (SAR) to get all of the data they hold.

 

There is a template for SAR in the CAG library, the link to which is at the top of every CAG page in green.

 

The statutory fee is £10 and they will have 40 days to comply. Amend the template to your particular needs but be sure to add a line to the effect that it is to include copies of all and any loan or other agreements you have had with them.

 

From the data that comes back you should be able to see what charges have been levied on the accounts and what, if any, PPI.

 

That information can be used to mount a claim for the refund of all unlawful charges to reduce the debt.

 

When you know the exact amount you actually ow then you can base any proposed full and final settlement offer on that figure.

[hillbilly20]

Thank you for your comments and please forgive the time lapse since my last post.

I have been away from home driving and got back last night

- only to find some developments.

I will update the thread and ask if anyone can assist further.

 

Firstly ims20 - I will respond to your questions and comments made in your post on 31st August 2013.

 

No, I did not let the bank know.

However, my Wife went to CAB and also to a Solicitor who liaised with Natwest on her behalf

and a payment plan of £1 per month was agreed some 3 years ago.

 

On 4th Sep 13 - in response to your kind advice,

I sent a Subject Access Request and I am not sure if the 40 days are working days or straight days.

If they are straight days, then this time will be up on 14th Oct 13, if it is working days, then it will be around 31st Oct 13.

 

I sent a postal order for £10 with this request but as yet there will be some time left before they should respond

(not sure just how long though lol). To date there has been no response and I sent our letter registered.

 

We had a letter from them detailing that we would be contacted by a DCA and this letter duly arrived this morning.

It was from a company called APEX and it was dated 26th Sep 13. The text of the letter is reproduced as follows:

 

QUOTE

Your account details have been passed to us by National Westminster Bank

to act as a collection agent and we will now be dealing with your account.

 

We offer a flexible approach to repaying your account and have different options that suit a wide range of individual circumstances.

You may have been unable to find a suitable repayment plan on this account previously

and we believe that we can help you repay the account.

 

If you are experiencing financial difficulty, our staff are fully trained to assist you with your current situation

and have a range of options to help.

 

We will be in contact with you during the next 7 days by letter and/or phone in order to discuss your repayment options in detail.

 

In the meantime, if you want to contact us you can use any of the methods overleave

including telephone on 0845 849 8925 or visit our web site at [link removed as requested]

 

Your sincerely

UNQUOTE

 

I seem to remember that somewhere on this site there is a template to tel a DCA that we have no contract

with them but I dont know if that might be a bit too antagonistic at this stage of the proceedings.

 

Can anyone advise me on what the best approach is from here?

I assume that it is to wait until the 40 days are up before any further action is taken

but what if this DCA phones my Wife or even if they turn up on the doorstep or write further? What should we do/say?

 

I have a lingering suspicion, that as I have already written to Natwest making an offer,

they did not want to accept it but they may have instructed APEX to do so

and that is the real reason for their becoming involved.

 

Not sure - what do you guys think?

 

I am looking after this for my Wife and I want to shield her from too much unpleasantness

- after all, its my fault that she is in this mess.

 

It is my honest and sincere intention to make a donation to your fantastic site,

as soon as I have resolved this issue once and for good.

 

So, keep up the great work guys - you stand as a beacon of light in a sea of brown smelly stuff!!!

 

Kind regards

 

A

[dx100uk]

the SAR is 40 calendar days.

 

as for the DCA, disregard them

 

they are NOT BAILIFFS

they have NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS

 

do NOT discuss your debts on the phone to them

or

if they appears at your door, tell them to leave or you will call the police.

 

at this stage you are in the ingo gathering mode.

 

you've got the SAR sorted.

 

you now need to gather a few more bits of info.

 

have you ever gotten your wifes credit file?

 

if not do so [see below links]

 

tell us what shows about these debts please

 

unlit the info arrives, i'd not be doing anything else.

 

if you wish to make your 'usual' payment, then continue to do so.

 

as for 'upping' those, lets get the info first

 

dx

[hillbilly20]

Thanks DX

 

I will repost when I have something to repost about lol

 

Regards

 

A

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'm afraid you Don't need to have a contract with a DCA which will have either bought the debt or have been assigned by the creditor to collect and manage the debt on their behalf.

[citizenB]

Have the bank not responded to your F&F offer ?

[hillbilly20]

I do see what you mean.

 

But I am not sure if this has been tested.

 

A contract is established between two or more interested parties. If one of these parties decides to transfer their side of the contract to another, there is at least a viable point from the remaining party who may decide that they did not sign up to discuss aspects of the original contract.

 

Take the regulations surrounding clients data. I can refuse to speak to any company to whom I have not signed an agreement with and if I do not confirm my identity with them, they cannot even discuss matters.

 

I know that you may be correct and as I am a Solicitor, I cannot be absolutely sure but our legal system is based upon people embarking on a challenge to what everyone thinks is established law. If they win their case then this creates a precedent. To my mind, this is an area that simply has not been challenged yet.

 

In any case, we do not wish to speak to them so they can take whatever action they want. They will know though that they will not wish to take court action because this will cost them money and they believe that there is little chance that they will get a favorable result.

 

I have cooperated with the Bank at every turn and I have even tried to settle but to no avail. I do not wish to negotiate with a DCA. I did think that I had seen a letter indicating that in this circumstance a DCA does not have a contract but I may have been mistaken. You sound like you know what you are talking about but that has not yet been confirmed (no offence intended by that remark).

 

If the DCA has bought the debt, I see it as my personal mission to ensure that they obtain a negative return on their investment. In a free society, the fact that they have bought a debt belonging to my Wife should, in my opinion, have been declared to my Wife so that she knows what financial interest the third party has to her case.

 

Still, at least you have taken your own valuable personal time to add a post and I appreciate you giving me your thoughts.

 

It will be interesting to see where this one goes as it will be valuable information for others I would have thought.

 

Thank you again for your assistance.

 

Kind regards

 

A

[hillbilly20]

Sorry, my last post should have said ".....I am NOT a Solicitor"

 

A

[hillbilly20]

Hi CitizenB, only just seen your post. No - not a sausage. They did however at about the right time for a response, send me a letter indicating that a DCA would be in contact with me soon.

 

Regards

 

A

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You will have signed an Agreement Regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) you will find that the CREDITOR can sell/assign the account to a 3rd Party if they wish (often named a s 'heirs and successors') THIS INCLUDES: Debt Purchase Companies and Debt Collection Agencies.

 

The Account is sold with all the benefits, rights and obligations of that agreement, and the 3rd party can take whatever action needed to collect the debt, 'the remaining party (the debtor does NOT need to have signed a 'contract' with the 3rd party.

 

Yes I do know what I'm talking about I deal with such matters here and elsewhere practically every day.

 

There is a faction that believe that if a debt is sold to a debt purchaser the debtors liability ceases this is totally delusional!

 

(no offence taken:lol:)

[hillbilly20]

Thanks for your reply.

 

At least you didnt say "....now look here Darling" (Alla Blackadder).

 

I consider myself rebuffed and I am blushing and sucking my thumb in the corner.

 

I will bow to your superior experience in future. This is obviously inside the rules BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE LOL!!!

 

Regards

 

A

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The sale and purchase of debt is a vast and murky business in the UK, there are 'rules and regulations, guidance al LAWS' again much open to interpretation and being totally ignored by some companies in the 'business'.

[hillbilly20]

Here are the results of my search of my Wife's credit report, with regard to the two listed debts with Natwest:

 

Natwest Bank Loan and Current Account is in 'Default'

 

Here are the listed details:

 

Natwest Bank Loan

Date Defaulted: 29/02/2012

Default Amount: £2,268

Payment Terms: £142 for 48 months

Started: 01/04/2011

End Date: 01/02/2012

It would appear that interest has been frozen

Currently paying £1 per month on this account

 

Natwest Current Account Overdraft

Date Defaulted: 29/02/2012

Default Amount: £4,004

Current Balance £3,986

It would appear that interest has been frozen

Currently paying £1 per month on this account

 

Does this information help?

 

Is there any other information that I could provide?

 

Regards

 

A

[dx100uk]

no that's brill

 

next steps after we have the SAR then.

 

dx

[hillbilly20]

Thanks DX.

 

I will repost once we have either received what we requested by the SAR.

 

What do we do if we do not receive a response to the SAR?

 

A

[dx100uk]

complain!

 

later

 

dx

[hillbilly20]

Hello guys

 

Well today it is 13th October and it is my Wifes birthday !! But more important regarding this link is the fact that tomorrow is the 40th day since I sent the SAR to Natwest and we have not heard from them at all. Now, we could give them a few days grace for my letter getting to them and theirs back to me but to all intents and purposes, they have not responded to the SAR. So, my first question is what action do we taken now and where does this leave us?

 

Secondly, Apex have contacted my Wife - asking if she could assign permission for them to speak to me, which she did by post. I think that they may be asking me to do a deal with them but this is pure speculation. You may remember that I had written to the bank offering them £1,200 in full and final settlement but I received no reply.

 

I am considering phoning them this week to discuss the situation but I wanted to know your thoughts about the situation first.

 

Thank you in anticipation

 

Kind regards

 

A

[hillbilly20]

The latest APEX letter reads as follows:

 

Dated 5th October 2013....

 

QUOTE

 

Apex Credit Management has received instructions from our client National Westminster Bank regarding your account above. Our role is to act as an intermediary between you and our client to ensure that the debt is repaid.

 

We profile our clients' accounts carefully using external data sources and believe that you have the ability to make payments on this debt.

 

Speak to one of our trained debt advisers on 0845 849 8925 or visit https://myapex.apexcm.co.uk/ to take action that puts an end to further calls and letters.

 

Take positive action today that allows us to resolve this matter for both you and our client.

 

UNQUOTE.

 

Any comments??

 

A

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

40 days starts from the day the creditor receives the SAR, did you use recorded signed for post so you can check the date it was delivered?

[hillbilly20]

Hello again Brig'

 

I thought that I had sent it registered but if I did, the receipt is not in the file.

 

However, I did photocopy the postal order (in colour) and the two associated receipts, which confirm that I sent the letter on 3rd Sept. I thought I had registered it but perhaps I thought that by sending a postal order, I could track that it has been cashed.

 

Looking online, it seems next to impossible to check the postal order and I was obviously mistaken about being able to track it.

 

I suppose this dooms my efforts doesnt it?

 

Regards

 

A