Thank you Andy

I understand but my Wife is very nervous about having people come to the house

it was about 3 years ago I think. Its already dropped off the credit file

I was thinking of sending them this letter. What do you think? Regards A Letter to Moorcroft.doc

I subscribe to a company called Audible - they are owned by Amazon and they provide audio books. I work as an HGV driver and so I find listening to a book is great for swallowing up the long distances being travelled on the road. Quite recently, I bought a book and it is proving to be an eye opener in relation to the subject of weight loss. One of its main topics is to discover why so many of us are 'obese'. In the book the author (who seems to be a respected Doctor and researcher) goes on to say that the human body itself is responsible for gaining weight and it is not because of people with low willpower. It also shines a light on what food companies have been doing over the last 40 or so years which has contributed to the existing obsity problem. I put it out here because I think it would be a great read or listen for those, who like me want to lose weight and keep it off. It may be better to obtain the printed copy of the book because there seems to be graphs and pictures which I am not able to view because its an audio book. The book is called: The Obesity Code Unlocking the Secrets of Weightloss by Dr Jason Fung. I have not finished the book yet so I have not got to the conclusions bit but I notice by doing an Amazon search that there is also an Obsity Code Cookbook so that will be my next purchase. I will say that what I have heard from the book so far, it seems very balanced and it looks like common sense mixed in with practical advice which will undoubtedly help a lot of people. I will let you all make up your own minds about it though. Regards Alan

I wonder if anyone can help me. I had a loan with a high street bank from about 10 years ago and I had to stop paying because I lost my job. I reduced my payment to a token payment for a few years but I then ceased this some years ago because I took some advice from an online forum which said that I should ask a ‘Subject Access Report’. I did this and I also asked for a copy of the contract with both signatures which highlighted that myself and the bank had a contract and what its terms were. As the loan was made up of an overdraft and a formal loan I thought they would have paperwork. However, eventually the bank responded by saying that they had no contract and they admitted that as such it was not enforceable in court. Over the last year, the bank have again appointed Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited to use their strongarm tactics. I have not been responding to the last couple of letters asking me to contact them to arrange a payment plan and now their letters are becoming more threatening. Here is the text of their latest letter……. Quote We are aware that you have failed to agree an affordable repayment plan with us concerning the above account. As no agreement has been reached we are now in the process of reviewing your account to consider the steps which may be taken in relation to further debt recovery action. The options include recommending one of the following: · 1. Continue in our attempts to contact you by letter and phone. · 2. Instruct a local representative to arrange to call at your home address to try to re-establish contact with you. To prevent possible further action you must contact us. Failure to contact us by the 22/10/19 will result in one of the aforementioned debt recovery actions being undertaken without further notice. Unquote As you can see, they are now getting more threatening. I really do not want people knocking at my door – does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do to sort this situation? I do not want to pay for something that seems unenforceable but I do not want knocks at my door either. Any help would be appreciated. Kind regards

Hello again Caggers, I posted a while ago and wondered if anyone has any more light they could shed on my draft letter and on the latest letter received from Apex. Your ongoing support is really appreciated. Regards A

Hello again Brig, Here is the watered down version of my reply..... QUOTE SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST FAILURE – FORMAL COMPLAINT Dear Sir/Madam I am trying to ascertain exactly what contracts I have with Natwest and how all accounts have been conducted, including any credits and debits that have been made to the account. I also wish to investigate the validity of the claims made by you regarding money you feel which is owed to you by me and so this is why I have requested you furnish information to me. On 04th September 2013 I made a formal request for a copy of ALL information in ALL formats held by you in relation to me be sent to me under Data Protection Act 1998. I would have expected that this would have included all and any credit agreement signed by both me and your company. This request for information was signed for as delivered on the 05th October 2013. Enclosed with that request was a postal order in the sum of £10.00 which represents the statutory maximum fee. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such you were in default on 15th October 2013. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing; I have no wish to correspond by telephone either with you or any other intermediary. Yours faithfully UNQUOTE. Does this mean that I now must attempt to send another letter asking for the agreements under the CCA??? Incidentally, we have received another letter from Apex which reads as follows: QUOTE Apex Credit Management are disappointed that despite our efforts to contact you regarding your debt with National Westminster Bank, you have failed to reach any agreement with us. We now believe that you are simply avoiding paying your debt and must therefore act in the best interests of our client. We utilise external data sources to profile our accounts carefully and believe that you have the ability to make payments on this debt. Consequently your account will be passed to our internal litigation team in order to consider the best course of action for recovery of the debt outstanding. This may include legal action to obtain a County Court Judgement which we may then seek to enforce by way of a charging order or attachment to earnings application. Please contact us immediately in order to prevent further action on this account. You can take control of your finances by taking positive action. Call our experienced debt advisers on 0845 849 8925 or visit https://myapexcm.co.uk/ for further advice and information. Yours sincerely UNQUOTE Any thoughts you guys?? Regards A

Ok Brig, I can see what you mean. I was asked to adapt it, I obviously have not adapted it correctly, I will have another go. However, if I have asked for copies of all information and data held in my wifes name, surely this should include the agreement. I will redraft and ask you to look at the new one if you wouldnt mind old bean. Kind thoughts A

Hi Guys, I have now drafted a new letter ready to go next week. Before I send it I wanted to see what you guys think...... QUOTE SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST FAILURE – FORMAL COMPLAINT Dear Sir/Madam I am trying to ascertain exactly what contracts I have with Natwest and how all accounts have been conducted, including any credits and debits that have been made to the account. I also wish to investigate the validity of the claims made by you regarding money you feel which is owed to you by me and so this is why I have requested you furnish information to me. On 04th September 2013 I made a formal request for a copy of ALL information in ALL formats held by you in relation to me be sent to me under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78. This was signed for as delivered on the 05th October 2013. Enclosed with that request was a postal order in the sum of £10.00 which represents the statutory maximum fee. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such you were in default on 15th October 2013. The documents and files that you are obliged to send me include a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments, for all accounts held by you in my name. If the executed agreements contained any reference to any other documents, you are also obliged to send me copies of those documents. In addition a full statement of all accounts should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the accounts. Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be complied with before you/your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired. As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states: If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) (a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law. You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, along with the other documents requested in my letter dated 04th September 2013 and you have failed to send a full statement of the accounts and failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8 (i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued' (k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt' Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing; I have no wish to correspond by telephone either with you or any other intermediary. Yours faithfully UNQUOTE I feel that the text of this letter seems direct and challenging and I wonder if the tone of it might push them into taking legal action that they may otherwise have refrained from. I am not overly scared by this prospect, but wondering what the outcome might be. I would welcome any comments that you may have. Regards A

Hello Brigadier' Further to my last post, I have now found the receipt for the letter, I DID send it 'Signed For' and I have tracked the letter. It was signed for by a V. Osbourne on 5th Sept 2013. So, I just need to send the other letter (failure to comply) when I can find it. Regards A

Thanks Brig I will pop along to the post office in the next week - but I can see that taking some time given the comments that I have noted from others online. I have tried to locate the 'Failure to Comply' letter in respect of an SAR but I cannot find it. Can you point me in the right direction? Regards A

Hello again Brig' I thought that I had sent it registered but if I did, the receipt is not in the file. However, I did photocopy the postal order (in colour) and the two associated receipts, which confirm that I sent the letter on 3rd Sept. I thought I had registered it but perhaps I thought that by sending a postal order, I could track that it has been cashed. Looking online, it seems next to impossible to check the postal order and I was obviously mistaken about being able to track it. I suppose this dooms my efforts doesnt it? Regards A

The latest APEX letter reads as follows: Dated 5th October 2013.... QUOTE Apex Credit Management has received instructions from our client National Westminster Bank regarding your account above. Our role is to act as an intermediary between you and our client to ensure that the debt is repaid. We profile our clients' accounts carefully using external data sources and believe that you have the ability to make payments on this debt. Speak to one of our trained debt advisers on 0845 849 8925 or visit https://myapex.apexcm.co.uk/ to take action that puts an end to further calls and letters. Take positive action today that allows us to resolve this matter for both you and our client. UNQUOTE. Any comments?? A

Hello guys Well today it is 13th October and it is my Wifes birthday !! But more important regarding this link is the fact that tomorrow is the 40th day since I sent the SAR to Natwest and we have not heard from them at all. Now, we could give them a few days grace for my letter getting to them and theirs back to me but to all intents and purposes, they have not responded to the SAR. So, my first question is what action do we taken now and where does this leave us? Secondly, Apex have contacted my Wife - asking if she could assign permission for them to speak to me, which she did by post. I think that they may be asking me to do a deal with them but this is pure speculation. You may remember that I had written to the bank offering them £1,200 in full and final settlement but I received no reply. I am considering phoning them this week to discuss the situation but I wanted to know your thoughts about the situation first. Thank you in anticipation Kind regards A

Thanks DX. I will repost once we have either received what we requested by the SAR. What do we do if we do not receive a response to the SAR? A

Here are the results of my search of my Wife's credit report, with regard to the two listed debts with Natwest: Natwest Bank Loan and Current Account is in 'Default' Here are the listed details: Natwest Bank Loan Date Defaulted: 29/02/2012 Default Amount: £2,268 Payment Terms: £142 for 48 months Started: 01/04/2011 End Date: 01/02/2012 It would appear that interest has been frozen Currently paying £1 per month on this account Natwest Current Account Overdraft Date Defaulted: 29/02/2012 Default Amount: £4,004 Current Balance £3,986 It would appear that interest has been frozen Currently paying £1 per month on this account Does this information help? Is there any other information that I could provide? Regards A

Thanks for your reply. At least you didnt say "....now look here Darling" (Alla Blackadder). I consider myself rebuffed and I am blushing and sucking my thumb in the corner. I will bow to your superior experience in future. This is obviously inside the rules BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE LOL!!! Regards A

Hi CitizenB, only just seen your post. No - not a sausage. They did however at about the right time for a response, send me a letter indicating that a DCA would be in contact with me soon. Regards A

Sorry, my last post should have said ".....I am NOT a Solicitor" A

I do see what you mean. But I am not sure if this has been tested. A contract is established between two or more interested parties. If one of these parties decides to transfer their side of the contract to another, there is at least a viable point from the remaining party who may decide that they did not sign up to discuss aspects of the original contract. Take the regulations surrounding clients data. I can refuse to speak to any company to whom I have not signed an agreement with and if I do not confirm my identity with them, they cannot even discuss matters. I know that you may be correct and as I am a Solicitor, I cannot be absolutely sure but our legal system is based upon people embarking on a challenge to what everyone thinks is established law. If they win their case then this creates a precedent. To my mind, this is an area that simply has not been challenged yet. In any case, we do not wish to speak to them so they can take whatever action they want. They will know though that they will not wish to take court action because this will cost them money and they believe that there is little chance that they will get a favorable result. I have cooperated with the Bank at every turn and I have even tried to settle but to no avail. I do not wish to negotiate with a DCA. I did think that I had seen a letter indicating that in this circumstance a DCA does not have a contract but I may have been mistaken. You sound like you know what you are talking about but that has not yet been confirmed (no offence intended by that remark). If the DCA has bought the debt, I see it as my personal mission to ensure that they obtain a negative return on their investment. In a free society, the fact that they have bought a debt belonging to my Wife should, in my opinion, have been declared to my Wife so that she knows what financial interest the third party has to her case. Still, at least you have taken your own valuable personal time to add a post and I appreciate you giving me your thoughts. It will be interesting to see where this one goes as it will be valuable information for others I would have thought. Thank you again for your assistance. Kind regards A

Thanks DX I will repost when I have something to repost about lol Regards A

Thank you for your comments and please forgive the time lapse since my last post. I have been away from home driving and got back last night - only to find some developments. I will update the thread and ask if anyone can assist further. Firstly ims20 - I will respond to your questions and comments made in your post on 31st August 2013. No, I did not let the bank know. However, my Wife went to CAB and also to a Solicitor who liaised with Natwest on her behalf and a payment plan of £1 per month was agreed some 3 years ago. On 4th Sep 13 - in response to your kind advice, I sent a Subject Access Request and I am not sure if the 40 days are working days or straight days. If they are straight days, then this time will be up on 14th Oct 13, if it is working days, then it will be around 31st Oct 13. I sent a postal order for £10 with this request but as yet there will be some time left before they should respond (not sure just how long though lol). To date there has been no response and I sent our letter registered. We had a letter from them detailing that we would be contacted by a DCA and this letter duly arrived this morning. It was from a company called APEX and it was dated 26th Sep 13. The text of the letter is reproduced as follows: QUOTE Your account details have been passed to us by National Westminster Bank to act as a collection agent and we will now be dealing with your account. We offer a flexible approach to repaying your account and have different options that suit a wide range of individual circumstances. You may have been unable to find a suitable repayment plan on this account previously and we believe that we can help you repay the account. If you are experiencing financial difficulty, our staff are fully trained to assist you with your current situation and have a range of options to help. We will be in contact with you during the next 7 days by letter and/or phone in order to discuss your repayment options in detail. In the meantime, if you want to contact us you can use any of the methods overleave including telephone on 0845 849 8925 or visit our web site at [link removed as requested] Your sincerely UNQUOTE I seem to remember that somewhere on this site there is a template to tel a DCA that we have no contract with them but I dont know if that might be a bit too antagonistic at this stage of the proceedings. Can anyone advise me on what the best approach is from here? I assume that it is to wait until the 40 days are up before any further action is taken but what if this DCA phones my Wife or even if they turn up on the doorstep or write further? What should we do/say? I have a lingering suspicion, that as I have already written to Natwest making an offer, they did not want to accept it but they may have instructed APEX to do so and that is the real reason for their becoming involved. Not sure - what do you guys think? I am looking after this for my Wife and I want to shield her from too much unpleasantness - after all, its my fault that she is in this mess. It is my honest and sincere intention to make a donation to your fantastic site, as soon as I have resolved this issue once and for good. So, keep up the great work guys - you stand as a beacon of light in a sea of brown smelly stuff!!! Kind regards A

Thanks Guys for responding - I am surprised that a response was so fast. I will try and cover all aspects of what you have all said. I didnt consider the 14 days - I only wrote to them on 20th Aug so I suppose that they've had 11 days but some of these have not been working days. The difficulties that my Wife was in was actually mine - I lost my job and so our family income dropped through the floor. Its another reason why I am working hard to help her as I feel that its actually my fault. I cannot answer any of the other questions and she does not know so if the debt is sold on then I will renew my approach by asking for a full account of all sums owed including any fees that have been levied. Once I know this then I can negotiate with the new people (even though I know that I do not have to as my contract is with Natwest not them). Thanks again guys - I will post any updated information on the thread. Regards A

I am trying to assist my Wife. She has two debts with Natwest - an old overdraft and an old personal loan. Total value of these debts are around £6,200. For the last 3 years Natwest have been accepting £1 a month on each but recently they began to get a bit heavy. My Wife has offered to increase the payments to £2 on each but they have now said that they will get an 'external agent' to make contact with her. I have written to Natwest explaining that I am willing to assist me wife by the payment of a one off £1250 (which represents about 20% of the o/s balance). I gave them until today (31/8/2013) and they have not responded. I am a bit surprised I must admit. I told them that their only alternative was to make her bankrupt and then they would get none of their money. Any suggestions from anyone? Regards A