myloan.co.uk

[vselym]

Evening all,

 

brief background, my step daughter obviously got herself into financial difficulties, and hid letters in drawers rather than tell her mum and me. She has over this last weekend fessed up, and so here I am back on CAG (my how it's grown), my once second home !

 

Amongst numerous issues was her Lloyds TSB account, which was in arrears due to two transactions from myloan. After half an hour on here I had the picture, thanks go to all unfortunate CAGgers who have crossed their path and posted about it.

 

I went to see the bank with her today, and met with a pretty clued up Branch Manager who had his own issues with the call centre. I have now fired off a pay it back letter to myloan with all the usual threats, as the call centre point blank refused to treat the matter as fraud, and I had not given myloan opportunity to deal with the dispute.

 

After my own research I am more than convinced that this could constitute fraud. I am aware that some may say by entering details which would allow them to take money from the account would constitute agreeing to their t's&c's, but this does not explain why they took a £1-00 debit first, then a week later a debit of £68-99. Without entering any details on their website, they do make clear they are a broker, they do not anywhere without entering details explain how much. The fact they took £1-00 first suggests to me they were phishing, as clearly if they had an explicit agreement they would have taken their brokerage fee in one fell swoop ?

 

Anyway letter sent, gave them 7 days, told them no questionnaire to be completed and no reminder of deadline ...... we'll see

[renegadeimp]

Tell your bank to perform an immediate chargeback.

[vselym]

That is tomorrow's mission, I have an official appointment at 14.00. Forgot to mention in 1st post, the account balance before the £1-00 transaction, stood at £0.29 credit, absolutely woeful of Lloyds to authorise that payment, let alone the subsequent £68-99.

[vselym]

Am I barking up the wrong tree, or do we have a case for unfair treatment under BCOB ?

 

With an opening balance of £0-29, if my sd had used her card to buy a £1-00 item at asda, the branch manager yesterday agreed that the transaction would have been declined. She has no od facility.

So by allowing a transaction to take her into an unauthorised od situation could it be argued this was unfair treatment ?

 

Surely fair treatment would be any and all transactions declined ?

[vselym]

Oh well, this is going to get messy methinks.

 

Lloyds TSB Scotland Visa Debit Disputes simply refuse to chargeback, as they know that by clicking on myloan's website, my sd complied with their t's&c's and agreed to pay £69-99. The "experienced" call centre "agent" actually said as I was trying to explain the FCA position on chargeback, "I don't want to talk to you anymore, pass me back to the Branch Manager"

 

In fairness to him, he filed a complaint against her handling of the situation, whilst I was there with him, and apologised that he couldn't do more.

 

He also couldn't answer as to why the payments were allowed to be processed with just £0-29 credit before myloan started.

 

Not sure where to go now ? Write to Lloyds ? FCA ? or just head off to court ?

 

Any input greatly received

[renegadeimp]

Formal complaint in writing and copy in the fca and oft.

[vselym]

ok, am I complaining about lack of compliance with FCA chargeback guidelines, allowing transactions to process therefore maybe invoking breach of BCOBS, was looking for the best line of attack ...

[renegadeimp]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?395493-Been-refused-cpa-cancellation-since-nov-2009-Go-get-your-money-back-now!!&p=4273750#post4273750

[vselym]

Thanks RI, but Lloyds are insistent this is not a CPA. I would beg to differ, myloans t's&c's state they will attempt to take "their fee" of £69-99 first, if this fails they will attempt a £1-00 transaction to validate the card, then try for a further 60 days to collect the balance of £68-99, and as I see it that is so they can catch anyone's payday regardless. I would have thought as they are selling a service, brokering, if they failed to collect at the first attempt then they don't provide the service, simples ?!

This raises questions in my mind which I'll list briefly;

Do their t's&c's constitute an unfair contract in that they can continually request payments for 60 days ?

Did they attempt to collect prior to the £1-00 transaction, and then between that and the £68-99 transaction, and how could I find out ? from them SAR ? or Lloyds ?

Still not clear as to how the payments were authorised as there were insufficent funds in the account for even the £1-00 transaction, and had been like that for 23 days so no issue with payments clearing late ?

Can Lloyds refuse to accept my belief that this is fraud, because they have previously found in favour of PDL Brokering companies, my reading of the FCA is refund then investigate ?

 

It may be only £69-99, and in many cases they apparently return £64-99, eventually, but I know I am in the fortunate position to pay this, and the people they are royally f*st*ng, cannot !

[renegadeimp]

Doesnt matter what they say. Tell them to put it in writing if they are so sure.

[vselym]

This is from the OFT's guide to Unfair Contracts

 

Group 6(a): Unequal cancellation rights

Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if

they have the object or effect of:

(f) authorising the seller or supplier to dissolve the contract on a

discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to

the consumer …

6.1.1 Fairness and balance require that consumers and suppliers should be on an

equal footing as regards rights to end or withdraw from the contract. The

supplier's rights should not be excessive, nor should the consumer's be

over-restricted. This does not, however, mean a merely formal equivalence

in rights to cancel, but rather that both parties should enjoy rights of equal

extent and value.

 

Question, is 14 days for the consumer to cancel yet 30 days to refund the fee equal

 

Not necessarily clutching at straws, just putting it out there ?

[vselym]

Now a dog with a bone, here are extracts from myloan t's&c's

 

5. Fees

We charge a fee for providing a service of acting as a finance broker. We specify the fee as part of our communications with You. If You do not enter into a loan offered by lender or financier within the 6 months that we act for You. We will refund the fee less than the £5 brokerage fee provided for by the Consumer Credit Act

1974. Refunds must be requested in writing to avoid repayments being sent to a wrong address. To facilitate Us processing payments and repayments You authorise Us to retain your charge, credit and debit card details. With regards to payments set up by debit or credit card we will attempt to take £69.99 when you make your application. If this payment declines we will immediately attempt to take a payment of £1 in order to validate your card details, should both of these attempts fail we will continue this process until You notify Us in writing that you wish Us to cancel such attempts or a period of 62 days has passed. Should the £1 validation payment accept at any stage during the 62 days then we will attempt to take £68.99 once per day until you notify us in writing that you wish Us to cancel such attempts or a period of 62 days has passed.

Under the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations 2004 you have the right to cancel your agreement with us within 14 days of receiving these terms and conditions, you will be entitled to a full refund which will be made within 30 days of receiving your request. If you would like to cancel You must Inform us in writing by email to customerservices@myloan.co.uk or by writing to My Loan, 5300 Lakeside, Cheadle Royal Business Park, Manchester, SK83GP.

 

6. Cancellation

Under the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations 2004 you have a right to cancel your application within 14 days of receiving these terms and conditions and receive a full refund. If You wish to wish to cancel your application, You must write to Us. In this event We will refund your fee within 30 days of the date of which We receive your written request to cancel your application. If you would like to cancel You must inform Us in writing by email to customerservices@myloan.co.uk or by writing to My Loan, 5300 Lakeside, Cheadle Royal Business Park, Manchester, SK83GP

 

14. Membership and Fee's

After paying your initial membership fee of £69.99 you will enjoy membership benefits to both myloan.co.uk and mycreditsaver.co.uk.

With regards to payments set up by debit or credit card we will attempt to take £69.99 when you make your application. If this payment declines we will immediately attempt to take a payment of £1 in order to validate your card details, should both of these attempts fail we will continue this process until You notify Us in writing that you wish Us to cancel such attempts or a period of 62 days has passed. Should the £1 validation payment accept at any stage during the 62 days then we will attempt to take £68.99 once per day until you notify us in writing that you wish Us to cancel such attempts or a period of 62 days has passed.

Under the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations 2004 you have the right to cancel your agreement with us within 14 days of receiving these terms and conditions, you will be entitled to a full refund which will be made within 30 days of receiving your written request. If you would like to cancel You must inform Us in writing to customerservices@myloan.co.uk or by writing to My Loan, 5300 Lakeside, Cheadle Royal Business Park, Manchester, SK83GP

 

19. Card Payment Terms

● These are the terms set out by My Loan with regard to future payments set up by Credit or Debit Card.

● If your payment for £69.99 declines on the day of your application, we will attempt to take £1 on the same day to validate the card details. This process will be repeated until you notify us in writing that you wish to cancel your application or a period of 62 days has passed. If the £1 card validation payment is successful at any stage during the process we will attempt to take £68.99 from the card once a day until you notify Us in writing that you wish to cancel or a period of 62 days has passed.

● You can cancel a Credit or Debit card payment at any time by simply contacting My Loan by email to customerservices@myloan.co.uk or by writing to My Loan, 5300 Lakeside, Cheadle Royal Business Park, Manchester, SK83GP

● Remember, we won't know when you have had a loan paid out, so you will need to let us know if there is a problem.

So in clauses 5&6 I'm employing a broker with a right to cancel whilst they can carry on for 60 days

 

By clause 14 I'm lucky enough to be a "member", still with a right to cancel, but myloan get 2 extra days to raid my account, obviously preferrential treatment for being a "face" down myloan way

 

Sadly by clause19 I'm back to clause 14, just not a "member"

 

Can t's & c's include different timescales for "a" singular service ? Did I miss something ?

[renegadeimp]

Ignore the T&C's. Do a forum search for myloans. You'll see what you need to do.

[vselym]

I have searched the forum extensively re myloans, and yes I could hang around for a while and collect £64-99, but that doesn't answer all the questions.

[vselym]

Evening, sent this today, and received "cancellation form" from myloan. Letter to myloan will be drafted tonight and sent tomorrow, any comments greatly received ta

 

Xxxxx name xxxxxX

xxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

Address

XXXX XXX

 

30th July 2013

 

Lloyds Banking Group

Customer Services

BX1 1LT

 

THIS IS A FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

Acc. No: xxxxxxxx

Sort Code: xx-xx-xx

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

This relates to two entries on the above account, dated on the enclosed copied statement as the 3rd and 10th June 2013.

 

I recently attended the xxxxxxx branch, 87-34-xx, on Wednesday 24th & Thursday 25th July, in an attempt to remedy the situation that had arisen. I was accompanied by my stepfather, and on both occasions spoke to the Branch Manager, Mr xxxx xxxxxxx. I sought to have both amounts charged back to my account.

 

On the Wednesday, Mr xxxxxxx spoke to the call centres concerned, and I spoke briefly to confirm some details. The conclusion was that no action could be taken, as the company to whom the payments had been made, had not been informed or given the opportunity to refund the amounts themselves. We then arranged an appointment for 14.00 the following day, Thursday 25th July.

 

Again, I attended with my stepfather and spoke to Mr xxxxxx. Mr xxxxxx called “Debit Disputes” and spoke through the problem. I then authorised my stepfather to speak on my behalf. The call took place at approximately 14.15hrs and was with a Deborah Pascoe. Ms Pascoe pointed out that the bank had dealt with cases like this before, refused to attempt a chargeback, told my stepfather she knew what the regulations stated and refused to continue the conversation, asking to speak to Mr xxxxxx again. Consequently I feel we have reached an impasse at branch and call centre level and need to escalate the matter to Head Office.

 

My complaints are twofold, being firstly that under the Payment Services Rules 2009, you failed to adhere to Regulation 61 by simply dismissing my assertion that the transaction was unauthorised, without proper investigation and relying on, in Ms Pascoe’s words, “previous experience”, a phrase I am sure many original PPI claimants heard too. Secondly, that under the Financial Conduct Authorities, Principles for Business, PRIN 2.1.1 No. 6, you failed to treat me fairly by authorising both payments and taking me into an overdraft position.

 

The redress I seek is that my account be restored to the original balance prior to the two transactions that caused me to be £69.58 overdrawn.

 

As this is a Formal Complaint I am aware that you have up to 8 weeks to investigate and would appreciate all communication in writing to the above address. I also request that if you find that Lloyds cannot meet my demand, that you indicate in your answer that, that is your final decision, thus allowing me to escalate the matter to the FOS for adjudication.

 

It is worthy of note that, Mr xxxxxx’s handling of the matter is to be highly commended, being diligent, courteous and professional at all times.

 

Yours faithfully

 

xxxxxnamexxxxx

[vselym]

Received letter from Lloyds on 2nd August, dated 31st July in response to above letter, their reply reads ;

 

Thank you for letting us know your concerns about your debit card dispute. We always welcome customer comments as it helps us to put things right for you.

 

As you mentioned, two payments to My Loan caused your account to be overdrawn and our Debit Card Disputes department refused to raise a chargeback. A member of staff informed your stepfather that her decision was based on her experience.

 

We appreciate how this situation has made you feel, however, our review shows no mistake was made.

 

Companies offering a loan broker service, as is the case with My Loan, will charge a one-off fee. The terms and conditions on http://www.myloan.co.uk state in Section 5 that the company will take a fee of £69.99 within 62 days of a customer signing up for their service. As the payments taken from your account on 3 and 10 June were taken in line with My Loan's terms and conditions, we are unable to recover the money back from the company.

 

I understand your concern that your account has been overdrawn as a result of the payments in question. If items are presented for payment and you don't have enough money in your account, we make a decision about whether to pay them or not. We usually work on the basis that customers want us to pay items, rather than return them. When My Loan requested payments we could not have known that you would look to dispute this.

 

I trust I've explained the reasons for our decision. If you wish, you now have the option to contact the FOS, so long as you do this within six months of this letter. Please find a copy of their leaflet enclosed. I've also enclosed a copy of our complaint information which gives you details of our commitment to how we deal with complaints.

 

It's important we've resolved your complaint fairly. If you feel we've misunderstood your complaint, or you've any questions or further information, please contact me.

 

yadayada Megan McCann

 

Firstly, I'm glad Megan had some free time to fully investigate and type a response in one day, so obviously customer services are currently kicking their heels !

 

Secondly, Ms Pascoe's "experience" clearly counts for far more than my "belief" that I didn't agree to being charged, but was hoodwinked into data harvesting and conned !

 

Thirdly, luckily Megan has got her head around My Loan's t's and c's Section 5, an extract of which I will now share,

With regards to payments set up by debit or credit card we will attempt to take £69.99 when you make your application. If this payment declines we will immediately attempt to take a payment of £1 in order to validate your card details, should both of these attempts fail we will continue this process until You notify Us in writing that you wish Us to cancel such attempts or a period of 62 days has passed. Should the £1 validation payment accept at any stage during the 62 days then we will attempt to take £68.99 once per day until you notify us in writing that you wish Us to cancel such attempts or a period of 62 days has passed.

So if I understand Megan correctly, Lloyds "usually work on the basis that customers want us to pay items, rather than return them", so why did Lloyds return My Loan's £69.99 application request ? Surely that's what I wanted ? Apparently I didn't, what I really wanted, was the initial £69.99 request declined, because I had insufficent funds, but subsequent £1.00 and £68.99 requests paid because I "weally, weally wanted it" !

 

And Fourthly, as I requested, they have failed to "state" this is their final response, but I could dilly dally with a few more letters........ or maybe not

 

I have reference numbers already with the FOS, so that's my Monday morning spoken for.

 

Does anyone see this differently to me ? Am I pushing £70 too far ?

[vselym]

Evening, the following went to MyLoan.co.uk today,

 

My loan

5300 Lakeside

Cheadle Royal Business Park

Manchester

SK8 3GP

 

 

THIS IS A FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your swift response to my letter dated 24th July 2013. I am however disappointed that you either didn’t understand what I said, or chose to ignore it.

 

Whilst I did enter my debit card details into your website, I was under the impression this was for credit checking purposes, and not explicit authorisation to take a fee of £69.99 for a brokerage service or membership of your company.

 

As such I request a full refund of £69.99, and as you have clearly acknowledged by replying to my initial letter that you know who I am, a cheque made out to me and sent to the above address will suffice thank you.

 

As this is a formal complaint, I am aware that you have up to 8 weeks to complete your investigations and reply, should however you conclude your findings before then and are unable to acquiesce to my request, then please indicate this in your response, to allow me to escalate my complaint further with the FOS and OFT, without delay.

 

I look forward to your response,

 

Have also completed complaint to FOS re Lloyds final response, see previous post