Orange - Travel Package nightmare.

[hsbcfiddled]

This is my second attempt spent 90mins writing first one out and it timed out when I entered it and lost it all. So here goes again. I have been with Orange well over ten years starting off with one phone on the account and have had five on my account since about 2009/2010 for me and wife and three of our children. Cant say the account has been always up to date but acceptable enough for Orange to allow increase from one to five phones over the years. However my complaint starts in essence from April 2012. April 2012A replacement sim card on a 30min tariff was requested and upon its activation problems occurred. Somehow the 30min tariff got mixed up with 800min tariff and you can guess the result. The phone with 800mins got barely used and the phone with 30mins got well exceeded. I pointed out to Orange the mistake and what followed was a farce. I cant remember how many times the account, sim, and phones got moved around but at least seven times. In took until late June early July 2011 to sort out during this time I was told to wait for it to be sorted out before paying. I was already in arrears as my youngest son had be conned by girl friend into him letting her use his phone result £400 bill (lesson learnt-phone taken away from him). July 2012Bill sorted to my satisfaction but I now owe Orange almost £1000 and my oldest daughter who was now 20yrs old wanted to keep her phone with Orange and was due an upgrade as her contract was due to end. Even though I owed almost a £1000 the upgrade went ahead. I made an arrangement to pay £250 per month to clear debt in line with my four weekly pay. The last week in July we all went to France on 3 week holiday. I phoned Orange before we left for travel packages to go on phone. I asked for best package and was told £5.10 package gave 200mins of incoming calls, so I bought 4 packages- one for my phone and 3 for other phones. August 2012.Whilst on holiday in France I realised that my packages were going to be insufficient for our needs and duly phoned Orange.I recall exactly where I was at the time of the call. The lady I spoke with told me that they could not give me the same bundle in a month but a EU Traveller bundle at £10.21 per month would give me (and what follows is disputed) 1000mins incoming and outgoing call time.I asked why this more suitable package wasnt offered to me initially? I said “five times the call time at twice the cost was a far better option”! No response other than “I’m sorry I don’t know”. Members of my family were close by including those to whom the bundles applied, as were friends from Essex and Holland. We were all holidaying together. As only I could hear what was being said to me by the lady from Orange I told her “I am going to put you on loudspeaker so that my sons can hear what they are getting in their package”. I thought it was important they heard it from horse’s mouth so to speak. She said that it was “1000mins incoming and outgoing calls and that texts incoming were free and I think 8p outgoing instead of 25p”. I said “so its 1000mins of incoming and outgoing total yes”? “Yes “she confirmed.This I later found out some weeks later was not the case. On return from France two more of the phones on my account were coming to the ends of their contracts, mine for one was. Given the problems earlier and the poor way I felt over the years that Orange had treated my longstanding time with them I felt I deserved better treatment and decided to end my own contract and others as they came to their ends respectively. I phoned Orange told them I didn’t wish to remain under contract and I was asked to reconsider. I said I didn’t want too reconsider. Over the next two days I had calls from the retentions department offering me better deals each time I said no and as to why. Eventually like a fool I gave in. They upgraded me even though I owed about £800 by now and they terminated FOC the next due out of contract phone and upgraded that one. So within a month three phones upgraded and put on 2year contracts whilst in arrears of approx £900!!! Also all five phones now had better tariffs and reduced rates because I was a ‘valued customer’. (and Elvis is riding Shergar around my garden). When I come to check my bill its massive even with my £250 four weekly payments reducing my debt by over £100+ each payday and it’s because the Travel package hasn’t been what I was sold.

My bill for France is in excess of £500. I dispute it and ask for recalculation. Orange confirms their bill. I complain to deaf ears. October 2012October 18th all five phones get switched off and on the day it happened I owed under £700. Now why is it that they disconnect me owing less than £700 yet grant me THREE upgrades when I owe just under £1000 over £200 more than they are disconnecting me for? Rhetorical question, I am a fisherman and know when the fish is hooked. So I phone Orange and agree to continue paying £250 four weekly until debt is cleared and they turn on phones but only to receive calls. Cant call or text out or use internet, I put giff gaff sim in old phone and think stuff you Orange. Whilst bill is being paid off no further account fees are charged, (the only reasonable thing Orange have done to this point) and I SAR them for copies of tape recordings of voice comms. . None, no voice comms.January 2013January 18th debt settled. Full use of phones resumes. However I did not know at this point my ‘Valued customer’ discounts and packages had been removed. February 2013Just before payment is due I check phone bill and its over £340, that can be true so i blamed kids for exceeding their packages. . no sorry kids Orange have returned us to higher rate packages and want TWO months payments because its a new account!! Gobsmacked.Now you don’t have to be Einstein to work out that for 6 months I have been paying £250 four weekly to realise that I can only pay £250 and the bill is £340.I complain to another set of deaf ears. I remind them off France travel package swindle. Now Orange start ringing my daughter she tells them ring my dad he’s the account holder. They don’t so I ring them and get deaf ears number 26. March 2013Phones all switched off. I think stuff em again and get out the Giff gaff sim. I start getting letters from Orange saying we been unable to contact you. I check pigeon loft and can’t find anything. So on the 27th March I think I will give it one more shot. LolWell I manage to get hold a guy in the Philippines’ in Orange Customer Services (Orange and customer Services in same sentence roflmao). He tells me his name in full, extension number, email address and the name of the team he works in (I will keep the details to myself for now- unless otherwise advised) and without me paying a penny gets all five phones reactivated, points out the tariff had been amended (as mentioned earlier above) and then knocks £150 off the bill, adds U24 discount to three of my kids phones on the account and apologises for the way I have been treated. Further he promises to tackle the France travel package and says regardless of whether package was mis-sold or not from a CS point of view it was poor practice.

He tells me that he was taking control of my account and that I would not be cut off again and that he was posting on my account that everything was to be done through him, even payment! Wow!

Are you thinking what I am ‘Knight, shining armour, big white steed or what’?

I don’t want to name him as yet but I shall call him Lancelot as he has rescued the damsel in distress (I’m male by the way got 5 kids with same woman too hey!- and perhaps DUMSEL would be more appropriate- I find sarcasm a great help!).

 

April 2013

April 9th I sent by fax birth certificates to verify U24 discount to Lancelot, and text him that I had done so. (Text saved)

I also enquired was there any progress on France travel package?May 2013 9th May sent another text -Today I received letter from Moorcroft Debt Recovery re my Orange account.

10th May to Lancelot text- What’s happening please?

20th May to Lancelot text- Lancelot I really need to know what’s happening with the account please?

No response to text June 2013

June 7th to Lancelot text- what’s happening please?

 

Summary

All above texts are stored and all Lancelot’s previous texts to me are stored to prove he was in control of my account. I also emailed him but don’t want to put those on here.

I received a phone call from him after MDR first letter on a Sunday whilst out shopping in which i voiced my concern over DCA and he said he was still working on Travel package and he would get back to me shortly.

I haven’t had any contact since I have tried many many times.

I have asked Orange to get him to contact me and been promised he would.

Whenever I phoned Orange they tell me it’s on the account file that any contact is to go through him. I agreed with him back in April that on my next pay day I would pay up to £400 (owed some arrears at work) off the account and with the refund I had hoped for that travel package all would be clear.

We agreed a time for him to ring me and he never did.

I spoke with Orange UK and was told YOU DONT HAVE AN ACCOUNT MANAGER repeatedly by some well trained dog who told me he was formerly employed by a DCA.

I knew that tone of voice so ended the call.

I spoke MDR and told them all that happened (all the above) they were going to look into it. .

lolI received letter from MDR with Orange findings. .

Orange say you were not mis-sold travel package! Now asif? I ask you do you really think they are going to say any thing else????

Well if you managed to get this far thank you very much. If you know anyone treated worse well my heart goes out to them.

I told MDR I want copies/transcripts of all Orange logs from January 18th 2013 to date.

I got asked for payment, to which I said “anything I owe Orange will need to be clarified but the costs incurred through the mis-sold travel package will need to be taken off the account and that this problem is not of my making therefore all the time spent on it by me will be charged at £20 per hour and phone call charges will need reimbursing too”.

 

 

 

Your thoughts please . . . I have just had one. its going to need Merlin!

 

 

Thanks

 

hsbcfiddled

Edited June 30, 2013 by hsbcfiddled
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[locutus]

Step 1 is to check your credit file.

[BankFodder]

It is a very involved and complicated story.

 

I am trying to see where your areas of complaint are.

 

So far as I can see, you are complaining about the initial confusion of the 30min and 800 min tariff but I don't understand if that has been sorted - or whether you are saying that this confusion has in some way caused the rest of the problems.

 

Is your complaint going to be about the incorrect advice you were given as to the travel package?

 

Are you complaining about both issues and do you say that they are connected?

 

Finally - as a Cagger since 2007, I really don't understand at all why you are having these kinds of conversations on the phone without recording your calls. There are excellent mobile recording apps if you are using an android and a very good Olympus recording device if you are on anything else including an iPhone or a landline.

[hsbcfiddled]

Thank you both for your replies.Locutus- Not worried about my credit file - I have a tiny credit card for insurance purposes only.Bankfodder- Firstly I have tried to give as much info as to how and why to save explaining the situatiion with questions I forsaw arising.I have tried to convey the poor handling of my account as a warning really to all.My complaint is the mis-selling of the Travel Package all the t&c have not been explained and as I was abroad any documents pertaining would not be available for me to contest until after the travel package had expired.Yes I know I shouldnt have phoned -I do however feel that this could have been resolved If my knight in shining armour hadnt been slain by the horrid Orange dragon.. I do have confidence in my ability to speak on the phone to Orange and any lowlife DCA.However I have done the talking on the phone it isnt acheiving anything. I did think common sense would prevail and this action could have been avoided. But hey ho! here we go!

Edited June 29, 2013 by hsbcfiddled
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[locutus]

Your mobile account will show on your credit file.

 

There is a free service at https://www.noddle.co.uk/ Give that a try and see how your orange account shows on there.

 

Regarding complaints, their complaints code (located here) will show the route that you need to take for your complaint.

 

Maybe escalate this to the CEO olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk Maybe Mr Swantee can offer some help!

 

Anything negative on your credit file that is due to incorrect information, let us know.

[hsbcfiddled]

Thanks Locutus.Noddle very useful and informative ..thanks I am checking what is recorded there. Not a lot im pleased to say but I see Cabot on there for an account in my name that was never mine. They have been writing to me but I have told them its not mine so ..go away! so to speak!Looked at Orange complaints code..be nice if they signed up to it themselves!I will try CEO and if not successful go to CICAS ...how does that sound?Thanks againfiddled

[locutus]

sounds like a plan

[hsbcfiddled]

Ok emailed olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk what sort of response time is there for a reply does anyone know?

Filled in all the details re Lancelot so that he can identify him.

 

Going to have a go at good old Cabot now thanks for the noddle info.

I did say I dont care about my credit but im not having the wrong info on there about me.

Thanks again.

[hsbcfiddled]

Re Cabot- I spoke with original lender..Lender agreed to withdraw allegation of debt. result!

 

No reply from Mr Swantee...Think I might fill in the blanks and repost on here..What do you think?

[locutus]

Keep at them. Keep things in writing.

 

Email customer.services@orange.co.uk

 

Tell them what you want from them, and what was promised.

 

Tell them if they refuse to give you that, give you a DEADLOCK letter so you can escalate the complaint.

 

 

 

[hsbcfiddled]

Keep at them. Keep things in writing.

 

Email customer.services@orange.co.uk

 

Tell them what you want from them, and what was promised.

 

Tell them if they refuse to give you that, give you a DEADLOCK letter so you can escalate the complaint.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice one..I like it.thank you Locutus

[hsbcfiddled]

orange website not taking email complaints..I have copied BBC Watchdog email address in and resent to olaf.

Edited July 13, 2013 by hsbcfiddled
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[hsbcfiddled]

I have had a reply from CEO office..We have investigated ...no mis-selling blah blah blah!

 

Investigation...probably went like this...

Version 1

Investigations team "hsbcfiddled has made a complaint about a travel bundle"? What can you recall?

Selling agent " how can I remember a transaction that took place 3 months ago? check the voice comms"!

Investigation team "we did & you can plainly be heard giving 'fiddle' the wrong t&c, so he has a genuine complaint, and you could get a written warning"

Selling agent "Oh sorry, what is going to happen"?

Investigation team "nothing, because he has run up a £500 bill and Orange will get nothing so we will lose the tape"! case closed.

 

Version 2

Investigations team "hsbcfiddled has made a complaint about a travel bundle"? What can you recall?

Selling agent "how can I remember a transaction that took place 3 months ago when the amount of calls we deal with I cant remember what I did 3 days ago"?

Investigations team "Well you could been in trouble if you did mis-sell, maybe a written warning"?

Selling agent "Oh yeah yeah I remember now. No I explained the t&c fully and there was no problem"

Investigations team "Ok thats good case closed".

 

footnote...when an internal investigation takes place remember....Turkeys dont vote for Xmas....Hillsborough!....

Edited July 21, 2013 by hsbcfiddled
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[hsbcfiddled]

time to name and shame!

 

Lancelot revealed from post 1

So on the 27th March I think I will give it one more shot.

 

Well I manage to get hold a guy in the Philippines ’ in Orange Customer Services

He tells me his name in full; Lester Carandang Ibesa, extension number 38989, email address cvg1ibesa@yahoo.com mobile number +639276953034 and the name of the team he works in; Edwin Hernandez Team Leader, & Gerard Guese Operations Manager and without me paying a penny gets all five phones reactivated, points out the tariff had been amended to detrimental effect (as mentioned earlier above) and then knocks £150 off the bill (credited on 17th April thanks to Lester), adds U24 discount to three of my kids phones on the account and apologises for the way I have been treated. Further he promises to tackle the France travel package and says regardless of whether package was mis-sold or not from a CS point of view it was poor practice. He tells me that he was taking control of my account and that I would not be cut off again and that he was posting on my account that everything was to be done through him, even payment!

 

Wow! Are you thinking what I am ‘Knight, shining armour, big white steed or what’

Edited February 28, 2015 by honeybee13

[LesterCIbesa]

I am not working for ORANGE anymore.

[citizenB]

Lester, I would suggest you start a new thread - this is a very old one and you are unlikely to receive any responses.

[hsbcfiddled]

Well there is a surprise. Lester! I wonder if you can recall what happened with my account? If so without revealing any personal information please?

[LesterCIbesa]

Hi add me on FB this forum does not allow you to send msg's automatically.

[LesterCIbesa]

or facetime me +639062882850 i will help you once more.

[LesterCIbesa]

or viber me

[hsbcfiddled]

sent you message on fb

[hsbcfiddled]

whilst waiting to find out what Lester can help me with I will update you;All three DCA's empowered by Orange have long since given up chasing me. The last one managed to get Orange to send me statements which show a change on all five phones to less favourable contracts none of which I was ever informed would happen.Its only my credit file now that shows default.I have complained many times to Noddle but they keep accepting Oranges version and wont remove defaults.It doesnt bother me too much because I manage fine but I would like to clear that default all the same.As Lester no longer works at Orange it would seem the only decent employee they had has left them.No wonder their CS is so widely condemned.

[LesterCIbesa]

search on FB Guardian Private Investigation or Lester C Ibesa, my number is +639062882850

[hsbcfiddled]

Well after selling this debt 3 times they have now sold it to Lowell and I've told them the long story but guess who they believe?

I have question regarding OFCOM who fined Orange/EE £1M for failing to handle customer complaints satisfactorily between 2011 and 2014 right in the middle is my complaint January 2013 can I complain to OFCOM?