Caught using my Grand's Freedom Pass including lied to the ticket inspector!

[pati.c]

I would normally use the card twice a day,

3 times a week for every week that I have college on the National Rail.

 

I've been using the card since before November I believe, although I'm not entirely sure.

I've also used it on some occasions that are not related to traveling to colleges including running an errand for my family etc.

My grandma has also left the country before I started using the Freedom Pass.

 

A couple of weeks ago I was approached by a plain clothes inspector after touching in the barricade with my Gran's Freedom Pass at London Underground station.

 

He asked to see my pass, and since I was pretty much nervous I showed him my 16+ photocard,

he checked it and asked to see my other pass so I had no choice, but to show him the pass I was using.

 

After that he asked how old I was, I wasn't sure what to do and I was seriously "NERVOUS & SCARED!"!

So I said to him that I was 17 when in fact I turned 18 2 months ago.

 

He then took both the passes and ask his colleague to check the cards,

in the mean time he asked me a bunch of questions e.g. my address, name and the same question which he had already asked me

"how old are you?" and since he already asked me that same question already

I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to tell him the truth which would be a different answer so I said that I'm 17...again.

 

After his colleague returned with the passes, the ticket inspector asked me mow many times I've used the card,

as i mention before I was really nervous and scared so I said twice in which he asked me for the exact date.

 

After jotting down a long note into his notebook, he began asking be questions again:

"Who's card is this?", "

Where are you intending to travel to?", "

Are you traveling with the intention of avoiding the travel fares?",

"Do you have money to pay for the fare?" and "

Is the card rightfully yours?", .

 

So I told him that it was my grandma's, Piccadilly Circus, yes, yes (although the money I have at that time was the part money

I was supposed to pay back to my friend of £120)and replied to his answer with a question

"What do you mean by if it's rightfully mine?", which he replied so I said that my grandma let me use it.

 

He then asked the same question and explain it again so I said no which I don't understand the reason that he has to ask me the question

seeing as it's pretty obvious it's not "mine".

 

After writing down a long note into his notebook again, he asked if I wants him to read what he wrote down,

I said yes and at the end he asked me if I understand and agree that everything he wrote down is true,

I replied again with a yes.

 

He gave my back my photocard, but kept the freedom pass. He let me out and tell me to buy a valid ticket.

 

Now I know it was my fault that I used the Freedom Pass in the first place and I should never have done it at all,

but at the moment I'm facing financial problems which includes owing my friends money over £300.

 

I have applied to a part time/weekend job so that it won't affect my studies since they are pretty bad

and I have huge amount of coursework to do at the moment, but I had to luck of getting ones.

 

I've a read few posts related to getting caught with freedom pass on CAG and I understand that I will be prosecuted, but I still have a bunch of questions to ask:

 

- Will I go to jail?

- Is it possible to ask for a community service instead as I have absolutely no money at the moment in which I could afford to pay for the fines?

- Will I get a criminal record?

- Should I write an apologetic letter to them?

- Does getting summon to court and dealing with the situation out of court make any difference?

 

It'd be great if I could get an answer to my problems...

Thank

Thanks.

[citizenB]

As this is a Bank Holiday Weekend, quite a few people might be on holiday and not on the forums. Someone will offer advice as soon as they can.

[dx100uk]

you wont goto jail

 

but

as you have continually and knowingly used the card since November

and they'll be able to see that in the card and system data

 

I doubt if you will avoid court and a very stiff fine

 

dx

[honeybee13]

I would normally use the card twice a day, 3 times a week for every week that I have college on the National Rail. I've been using the card since before November I believe, although I'm not entirely sure. I've also used it on some occasions that are not related to traveling to colleges including running an errand for my family etc. My grandma has also left the country before I started using the Freedom Pass.

 

A couple of weeks ago I was approached by a plain clothes inspector after touching in the barricade with my Gran's Freedom Pass at London Underground station. He asked to see my pass, and since I was pretty much nervous I showed him my 16+ photocard, he checked it and asked to see my other pass so I had no choice, but to show him the pass I was using. After that he asked how old I was, I wasn't sure what to do and I was seriously "NERVOUS & SCARED!"! So I said to him that I was 17 when in fact I turned 18 2 months ago. He then took both the passes and ask his colleague to check the cards, in the mean time he asked me a bunch of questions e.g. my address, name and the same question which he had already asked me "how old are you?" and since he already asked me that same question already I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to tell him the truth which would be a different answer so I said that I'm 17...again. After his colleague returned with the passes, the ticket inspector asked me mow many times I've used the card, as i mention before I was really nervous and scared so I said twice in which he asked me for the exact date.

 

After jotting down a long note into his notebook, he began asking be questions again: "Who's card is this?", "Where are you intending to travel to?", "Are you traveling with the intention of avoiding the travel fares?", "Do you have money to pay for the fare?" and "Is the card rightfully yours?", . So I told him that it was my grandma's, Piccadilly Circus, yes, yes (although the money I have at that time was the part money I was supposed to pay back to my friend of £120)and replied to his answer with a question "What do you mean by if it's rightfully mine?", which he replied so I said that my grandma let me use it. He then asked the same question and explain it again so I said no which I don't understand the reason that he has to ask me the question seeing as it's pretty obvious it's not "mine". After writing down a long note into his notebook again, he asked if I wants him to read what he wrote down, I said yes and at the end he asked me if I understand and agree that everything he wrote down is true, I replied again with a yes. He gave my back my photocard, but kept the freedom pass. He let me out and tell me to buy a valid ticket.

 

Now I know it was my fault that I used the Freedom Pass in the first place and I should never have done it at all, but at the moment I'm facing financial problems which includes owing my friends money over £300. I have applied to a part time/weekend job so that it won't affect my studies since they are pretty bad and I have huge amount of coursework to do at the moment, but I had to luck of getting ones. I've a read few posts related to getting caught with freedom pass on CAG and I understand that I will be prosecuted, but I still have a bunch of questions to ask:

- Will I go to jail?

- Is it possible to ask for a community service instead as I have absolutely no money at the moment in which I could afford to pay for the fines?

- Will I get a criminal record?

- Should I write an apologetic letter to them?

- Does getting summon to court and dealing with the situation out of court make any difference?

 

It'd be great if I could get an answer to my problems...

Thank

Thanks.

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

As the guys have said, you need to wait for the industry people to be able to get here.

 

If you haven't received a letter from the transport company yet, I think you should wait until you do and then tell us what it says. Hopefully the guys will be able to advise you when you know what you're up against. I don't know when the transport guys will be able to get here, as it's Easter.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

Now I know it was my fault that I used the Freedom Pass in the first place and I should never have done it at all, but at the moment I'm facing financial problems which includes owing my friends money over £300. I have applied to a part time/weekend job so that it won't affect my studies since they are pretty bad and I have huge amount of coursework to do at the moment, but I had to luck of getting ones. I've a read few posts related to getting caught with freedom pass on CAG and I understand that I will be prosecuted, but I still have a bunch of questions to ask:

- Will I go to jail?

- Is it possible to ask for a community service instead as I have absolutely no money at the moment in which I could afford to pay for the fines?

- Will I get a criminal record?

- Should I write an apologetic letter to them?

- Does getting summon to court and dealing with the situation out of court make any difference?

 

 

Firstly let me re-iterate what has already been said. This is not going to resuilt in a jail sentence.

 

That said, you already know that this is a serious breach of trust in misusing a Freedom Pass in this way and you are right to expect a Summons. Initially you are likely to get a letter from TfL giving you an opportunity to give an explanation of your actions. This will normally make clear that it is TfL intention to prosecute, but will be your opportunity to write back and try to mitigate the damage, by apologising, explaining your circumstances and why you did what you did and ask for an opportunity to settle by administrative disposal.

 

From your post it seems that this might prove difficult for you I'm afraid because if you were to persuade TfL to allow you to settle this without Court action you would need to be able to repay the unpaid fares and their reasonably incurred costs promptly and in one lump sum. The financial circumstances that you have alluded to would seem to make this difficult and in any case, with an allegation as serious as this one, it seems unlikely that TfL will agree.

 

If this continues to prosecution and you are convicted you will face a fine and orders to pay costs, compensation and a victim surcharge which will be imposed by the Magistrates. You would be permitted to pay the total of that lot by affordable instalments arranged with the fines officer at the Court. The downside of this is that you will have a criminal conviction for avoiding fares.

 

You can minimise the amount of fine & costs by pleading guilty to the charge/es at the earliest opportunity once you receive a Summons.

You are not able to pre-arrange community service. This should not be looked upon as an 'easy option', it is a very serious penalty and is used by the Courts as a last resort alternative to prison sentences in where that would otherwise be appropriate

 

Breach of Section 5.3 of The Regulation of Railways Act [1889] is a serious matter, but does not carry a custodial penalty for conviction on a first offence and therefore a community service order would not be appropriate in this case.

 

The best suggestion I can give in this instance is to await the letter from TfL, when that arrives you will know the unique reference allocated to your case and then respond truthfully and with remorse. Don't let it worry you too much, this isn't life threatening. If you are able to arrange financial help by family or other means, you might prepare for that possibility and try to convince TfL to allow a settlement, but if that isn't possible, start making plans for how you will deal with the likely outcome.

[pati.c]

So I just received a letter from TFL today. Fortunately for me, they decided not to take this any further. The letter was sent to my parents for some reason. I assumed that it would have been my name since I'm 18 so I don't quite understand. Anyway I'm not happy and I LEARNED my lesson...

 

I have been passed a report concerning an incident that took place at LONDON BRIDGE (Z1) London Underground railway station on 17/03/2013 at 12:25 alleging that **NAME** committed the offence of Fare Evasion contrary to Section 5 of the regulation of Railways Act 1889 as Amended.

 

You should be aware that travelling to the London Underground railway with intent to avoid payment of the correct fair is an offence which can be dealt with by way of criminal prosecution. This offence, if not proved in court can carry a maximum penalty of a fine up to a maximum of £1,000.

 

After careful consideration, on this occasion, I have decided to deal with this matter by way of this formal letter of advice instead of a criminal prosecution.

 

London Underground will keep the incident details on file, and should **NAME** come to our attention again for a similar alleged offence, the matter may be processed by way of a criminal prosecution.

 

I wish to take this opportunity to remind you that **NAME** must be in possession of a valid ticket or other form of authority to travel, whenever using London Underground train Services.

 

Thanks for the information~

[sailor sam]

A very lucky out come for you. Miss-use of the over 60's national concessionary scheme normally results in prosecution (and quite rightly so). Further more, your gran has no rights to allow you to use it so hopefully she will now loose the privilege.

[BazzaS]

Very lucky!.

 

By the fact that they wrote to your parents, they may still be under the impression you were aged less than 18 on 17/3/13 when you were interviewed ........

 

If they find out you lied about that too, and were 18 at the time rather than 17 as you had stated, they might reconsider. I note that you have left in the time and date you were interviewed, and at which station ; better hope no-one from TFL's prosecution unit reads your post IF the reason for their decision is their belief that you are under 18, when they can see from your original post that you were fibbing about that too?.

 

sailor sam said:

A very lucky out come for you. Miss-use of the over 60's national concessionary scheme normally results in prosecution (and quite rightly so). Further more, your gran has no rights to allow you to use it so hopefully she will now loose the privilege.

 

 

The OP noted his Gran (who the pass was issued to) had gone abroad ......

Edited May 16, 2013 by BazzaS

[dx100uk]

on the other hand this could be true compassion on the TFL's behalf.....?

 

why stuff up a youngsters life - ?

 

what he did - not right - yes

 

but

it might teach the OP that 'the debt to his mate and the likes of mobile phone contracts, do not over ride priority debts & what you SHOULD pay for in life FIRST!'

 

better that lesson is learned now, rather than later in life ... pay you mate rather than your mortgage...??

 

dx

[BazzaS]

TfL's prosecutions policy (or at least their public facing version of it) is available on the web.

 

They seem to apply a cut off based on 18th birthday.

"5.1 TfL will not normally prosecute any person under the age of 18 on the day of the relevant offence. This is in line with the Home Office guidelines of diverting youths away where possible, from the criminal justice system."

 

I do agree that if the OP has learnt from their "narrow escape", then that, perhaps, is the desirable outcome, regardless of if they were prosecuted or not.

[Old-CodJA]

Exactly so Bazza, this process is as much about re-education as it is exacting retribution.

 

Where young people are concerned it is always about ensuring that the alleged offender understands that all of our actions have consequences, the same applies to everyone else of course, but it is not simply a case that the offender can always be allowed to pay their way out of trouble.