Iraqi Interpreters welfare assistance ?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Yet a prat of a politician can get a medal for visiting an area of conflict? if so beggers belief? and then some.

 

Que?

[Prouty99]

I only notified RBL today in Manchester, and the county welfare officer i notified is only back in the office on Wednesday after the bank holiday weekend. RBL in Manc have already been supporting this person, but aren't aware of the new development to this case until today.

 

I take it you have ties to RBL so if this is the case then speak to Dan Martin, or David Brown at Lowry house (RBL) Manc office for further info.

 

Just because you technically haven't served in the armed forces doesn't necessary mean that you don't get MVIAPT, RBL, Live-At-Ease, and Civvy Street assistance...,and the fact that this individual didn't have a service number didn't get in the way of him achieving priority housing assistance with my help.

 

Service number or not, this individual has sacrificed everything for the UK's campaign in the gulf conflict, not because of money, but because his opinion was that it was the right thing to do, and i think that deserves recognition (which has now been achieved)

 

I am not a big fan of Mr.Clegg, but he made a valid point yesterday, "I think we have a duty of care to these people"

 

Damn straight.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Prouty99

[ScarletPimpernel]

Service number or not, this individual has sacrificed everything for the UK's campaign in the gulf conflict, not because of money, but because his opinion was that it was the right thing to do, and i think that deserves recognition (which has now been achieved)

 

He's still alive; he hasn't sacrificed everything, unlike 400+ of our service personnel and some interpreters.

 

I am not a big fan of Mr.Clegg, but he made a valid point yesterday, "I think we have a duty of care to these people"

 

 

We do owe a duty of care to these people, but I don't think that should extend to treating them as if they have served in the Armed Forces when they have not.

 

Many of the Afghan interpreters do not come from the area they worked in, and the danger of retribution to them and their families is not the same as it was in Iraq. This was the case with all the interpreters I worked with on my Herrick tours. They were very well paid by local standards; one of ours was able to support a family of 14, and save 60% of his salary (with which he was going to buy land and a house). All made substantial additional income through selling carpets and jewellery to troops. They had regular paid leave, with travel paid for; all our terps came from Kabul, which is a considerable distance from Helmand. They were provided with free food, accommodation and healthcare.

 

If they want to come here, and not all do, then we should allow them to, and we should give them some support - but we should not treat them as anything other than the locally-employed civilians they were.

 

Contrast the treatment you propose with the way UK contractors who work in Afghanistan are dealt with. They do not get any special treatment upon their return; they aren't entitled to priority housing, special access to mental health services or anything else. On my last tour a UK contractor died suddenly. No vigil for him; no band to meet him at Brize Norton, or sombre convoy to Oxford - his coffin was shipped back as freight, covered in hessian, and his family were responsible for the full funeral costs. Yet this man was a veteran who'd served 22 years in the army, and worked for 6 years in Afghanistan. Just as we cannot operate effectively without terps, nor can we function without contractors - 40+% of support services are contractor provided.

 

Whilst I was there, a terp was injured by an IED, and lost both legs. He had the very best immediate care, and was sent to Kabul for rehab, returning to us for further surgery. He was provided with everything he needed, compensated for his injuries and suitable employment found for him near his home in Kabul.

 

I think we look after interpreters well, and there is no need to for them to be recognised as anything other than what they are.

[Prouty99]

You make some very good points here, although with regard to the interpreters you seem to keep coming back to the 'very well paid' argument, which you comment on based upon your own experiences with the terps, and i have my own opinions based on my only experience with a terp (which is the individual i have assisted), who gave up a career that paid 3 times the best wage he was ever paid as a terp in order to become an interpreter. He was already extremely well paid before he got involved with the coalition forces. As i keep saying, for him money was irrelevant.

 

We do seem to have common ground with some of our opinions and you seem to be in favour of UK contractors getting equal consideration, which in principle i would agree with, at the very least in the case you mention. I'm sure that if this would have been the case i was supporting i could have helped in this case also.

 

At the end of the day i can only deal with the case that is in front of me, and i have done that. We can argue back and forth all day about the pros and cons of who should get assistance or not, and voice our opinions either way, but the individual i have supported has achieved his goal, and is about to start a new life thanks to the armed forces covenant.

 

Opinions about who should, or shouldn't have done what after the fact count for nothing.

[Ford]

prouty, you say money was not an issue and he was earning 3 times as much prior. so, why work as a terp then given the risks involved? did he/they have sympathy for the cause? did they want to take the risk so as to have the poss opp to come to the uk? i don't know, just asking.

i know you say you don't want to discuss things generally, but why not? given your and others experience here, is interesting.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Ford

[ScarletPimpernel]

prouty, you say money was not an issue and he was earning 3 times as much prior. so, why work as a terp then given the risks involved? did he/they have sympathy for the cause? did they want to take the risk so as to have the poss opp to come to the uk? i don't know, just asking.

i know you say you don't want to discuss things generally, but why not? given your and others experience here, is interesting.

 

I think that this may be a bit of a red herring, but not a deliberate one on Prouty's part.

 

Iraq's economy collapsed, and whilst many people had well-paid jobs in principle, in practice they were not paid. Many terps came to the job from economic necessity, and by the standards of the time the were well paid. No-one was forced to work for the UK; indeed there were always many applicants for each job, and no guarantees were given about what would happen at the end of the conflict. To put this in context, we had cleaners who had previously run fairly large companies. As in Afghanistan, one of the issues with local police and other officials was that they often didn't get paid on time, whilst the insurgents did pay, so were able to 'turn' people.

 

In Bosnia, our terps were paid almost ten times as much as the doctors in the local hospitals, who relied on humanitarian aid to live. It is, unfortunately, an aspect of conflict that is common.

[Ford]

thanks for posting back. yes, thats what that afghan 'terp' was saying on the beeb 5live ie economic necessity. as you say, maybe a red herring there.fair dos. as couldn't really see why a local would take the risks for 1/3 ie less pay!

Edited May 28, 2013 by Ford

[Prouty99]

This particular individual took the step to becoming a terp as he thought it was the right thing to do. It was never about being paid on time, or not. His opinion is that he was unhappy that the way that the country was being run way before any hostilities started. If he would have spoken out at that time he would have been killed, no question.

 

With the Americans and British forces in the country it gave the opportunity to turn opinions into action, and do his bit to help,

 

If the UK was being ruled by a dictator, and secret police 'disappeared' people for very little reason, then i would immediately join with any invading force intent on democratic change. It wouldn't matter how much i was paid beforehand. There are some people who are prepared to give up everything to have a chance to fight for the freedom of their fellow man y'know.

 

It would seem that some opinions in this thread indicate that given these circumstances it would be better to continue taking the money, turn a blind eye when your neighbours disappeared, keep your head down, and support your friendly dictatorship...,but i digress..., as i said in an earlier post, the objective has been achieved, and irrespective of opinion on who is or who isn't a veteran, the objective has still been achieved regardless.

[Ford]

ok. so, in general, it seems some take the risks 'to feed the family'/necessity etc (as for eg the afghan terp said on the radio), some do it for the 'cause' (as you say), and some no doubt for both, either for a better future. of course, as you say, if someone wanted to challenge an oppressive regime, then they would prob do what they can in their circumstances to do so given the personal risks eg in afghan, by joining the army/police, being a terp, providing intelligence, politics, etc. unfortunately, it seems that life after in iraq doesn't seem to be much better despite the 'democracy'? and, afghan may end up similar once the withdrawal? anyway, thanks for posting back.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ford

[Grotesque]

no doubt they were paid rather well by the armed forces for their services while being interpreters,

i see them as private contractors, or mercenary soldiers, nothing more

 

They had neither the pay of or equality with, the likes of Halliburton etc.

[ScarletPimpernel]

They had neither the pay of or equality with, the likes of Halliburton etc.

 

It may be the case that Halliburton and other US contractors pay their staff extremely well, and they may have good conditions of service. The same is not true of most British contractors, though.In fact, there are all sorts of contractors working in Afghanistan, on all sorts of different contractual conditions. Comparisons are really difficult because you would be comparing apples to oranges, to bananas.Interpreters are usually well provided for compared to other locally employed civilians. Terps usually get all their meals provided from military sources free of charge, full medical care and free accommodation.