Driving w/o L Plates Charge wrong when received

[jess-star]

Yet, you've not actually answered the question "who is the main driver"

It appears you only want the answer you want to hear.

 

 

It doesn't reflect on the current charge, but just because "you got away with it" isn't the same as "it not being illegal".

 

Which brings us back to the current situation:

Your friends with a full license got away, in the past, with driving on a motorway (lawfully) with L plates on (which they could have been 'done' for).

 

Your friend, currently has been done for driving on a provisional license without displaying L plates.

Regardless of your "he had shifty eyes" / "they had no reason to stop us" / were were "maltreated" : what do you think the court will consider?

 

The 'stop' wasn't unlawful. The offence was commited.

Do you still feel you have a defence at law?

 

I dont think you read this properly, my point is that if a car has L plates on a motorway it doesnt necessary warrant being stopped as the driver may not be a provisional driver........

 

I think you only read what you wish to also hon. Thanks tho!

[sailor sam]

I dont think you read this properly, my point is that if a car has L plates on a motorway it doesnt necessary warrant being stopped as the driver may not be a provisional driver........

 

I think you only read what you wish to also hon. Thanks tho!

 

How are the police supposed to know that without stopping the car? As you no doubt know, learner (or provisional license holders) drivers are not permitted to drive on a motorway (apart from HGV learners). So it follows that if a police patrol sees a car displaying 'L' plates, they are bound to want to investigate to see whether the driver is qualified or not.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[assisted blonde]

driving without L plates (when you require them) is a strict liability offence I believe so there is no need for Mens Rea (intention) to commit the offence. It matters not one bit why you were stopped the offence was present when stopped so no defence. As for the mistake in saying you were not there and then saying you were it really willl be explained as a typo or mistake. If you were there and you are a quaified driver then that is a defence to that crime and should not create any further problems.

[Aretnap]

The wrong charge relates to qualified driver being present and not the L plates.

 

I did explain all of this in the first instance. Thanks for your post though

I get that. I was responding to post 15 where you raised the possibiliy of using a mistake in one part of teh police paperwork to cast doubt on the rest of their evidence. Lawyers will sometimes try to do this if they have no better grounds to defend a charge on. Sometimes it might work, but more often than not it doesn't.

 

A car with L plates which is being driven on a motorway (or by a lone driver) has a high chance of being stopped as a cop would have reasonable grounds to suspect that it might be being driven by a learner. AFAIK it's not a legal requirement to remove the L-plates when a full licence holder is driving, but it's a good idea, if only because it will save you the hassle of being stopped.

[jess-star]

still off point but thanks

[BazzaS]

What law would someone break by driving on a motorway with L-plates, assuming he had a full licence?

 

Checking, you are correct

 

It appears it is only against the Highway Code, rather than a breach of statute law, and (if 'splitting hairs') one can argue that the Highway Code says "should" rather than "must".

 

"Vehicles. Any vehicle driven by a learner MUST display red L plates. In Wales, either red D plates, red L plates, or both, can be used. Plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a learner (except on driving school vehicles)."

 

As others have already noted, solo driver with L plates, or L plates on a motorway is akin to a large flashing sign saying "please stop me and ask me for my driving documents".

 

Returning again to the point of the OP : have you yet found any grounds to defend them against "driving without L plates".

They are a learner? They were driving? No L plates were displayed?

Edited March 4, 2013 by BazzaS

[jess-star]

I dont need advice on the highway code thanks, but cheers for your twopenneth.

 

I'm not sure why we keep visiting the motorway incident, not something I know anything about, nor is it on the charge sheet.

 

SO if you wanna reply please stick to the point otherwise its wasting my time. Thanks

[sgtbush]

wont win, TBH i think your looking for technacalities to have the whole case dropped rather than answer the questions you will be asked in court, and to be honest if you come up with the waffle and changes in stories that you have written here, do you think a judge will buy that???

 

sorry to sound harsh

[renegadeimp]

Please dont take this the wrong way but i dont think we're being given the full story. It's more like chinese whispers, especially since we dont actually know what the ticket was for.

 

If we do, then i apologise, but we need the ticket code or charge to be able to help. Right now, we're just going off random conjecture as information is not concise and indeed is random at best, which is why people are getting confused.

[crem]

What law would someone break by driving on a motorway with L-plates, assuming he had a full licence?

 

This one...

Vehicles. Any vehicle driven by a learner MUST display red L plates. In Wales, either red D plates, red L plates, or both, can be used. Plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a learner (except on driving school vehicles).

Law MV(DL)R reg 16 & sched 4

 

https://www.gov.uk/rules-drivers-motorcyclists-89-to-102/motor-vehicle-documentation-and-learner-driver-requirements

[BazzaS]

I dont need advice on the highway code thanks, but cheers for your twopenneth.

 

I'm not sure why we keep visiting the motorway incident, not something I know anything about, nor is it on the charge sheet.

 

SO if you wanna reply please stick to the point otherwise its wasting my time. Thanks

 

You seem to abreact to any post that doesn't say what you want to hear.

 

I don't think CAG is here to validate your inability to accept your friend's guilt.

 

You complain at me "not sticking to the point" & then ignore :

 

 

"Returning again to the point of the OP : have you yet found any grounds to defend them against "driving without L plates".

They are a learner? They were driving? No L plates were displayed?"

 

So, it appears they are guilty, given that posters seem to agree that all the "red herrings" you have raised have been dismissed as "not reasons to get a dismissal".

[sailor sam]

This one...

Vehicles. Any vehicle driven by a learner MUST display red L plates. In Wales, either red D plates, red L plates, or both, can be used. Plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a learner (except on driving school vehicles).

Law MV(DL)R reg 16 & sched 4

 

https://www.gov.uk/rules-drivers-motorcyclists-89-to-102/motor-vehicle-documentation-and-learner-driver-requirements

 

It also used to be the case (not sure whether it still is or not) that the L plates use to have to be positioned on the driver's side if I remember correctly.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[renegadeimp]

The L plates can be placed anywhere on the front or back of the car as long as they arent obstructing the drivers view/lights or reg plate. There must be at LEAST 1 L plate on the front and 1 on the back.

[Aretnap]

This one...

Vehicles. Any vehicle driven by a learner MUST display red L plates. In Wales, either red D plates, red L plates, or both, can be used. Plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a learner (except on driving school vehicles).

Law MV(DL)R reg 16 & sched 4

 

https://www.gov.uk/rules-drivers-motorcyclists-89-to-102/motor-vehicle-documentation-and-learner-driver-requirements

That's not a law, it's the Highway Code. Breaching the Highway code is not an offence in itself. It does tend to establish civil liability in the event of an accident, but it's difficult to imagine a situation where incorrectly displayed L plates could cause an accident.

 

The law itself is given by The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 which require a learner driver to display L plates etc, but don't say anything about taking them off when the car is not driven by a learner. And the fact that the Highway Code uses the word "should" rather than "MUST" indicates that that part is good practice, but not actually a legal requirement. So a qualified driver could not be prosecuted for displaying L-plates, but he'd probably find himself being stopped quite a lot if he was on his own and/or on a motorway.

 

Which is pretty much what Bazza already said above (thanks Bazza).

[NE1advice]

There is only one charge - it will be under section 87 (1) of Road Traffic Act 1988 - the learner driver was driving otherwise than in accordance with their licence. It sounds like the attached police statement refers to lack of L plates and lack of supervising driver. Either or both of these make the driver guilty of the offence. If the lack of supervising driver is disputed, the learner driver is still guilty of the offence. Dragging it out at court may only serve to increase costs to the defendant.

As you have already been advised, the reason for stopping the vehicle is irrelevant as the police are permitted to stop any vehicle under the Road Traffic Act. Your complaint regarding the subsequent search is also irrelevant to the charge.

Again as advised above, if your friend accepts driving without L plates displayed, he should plead guilty. I don't think it will make any difference to the fine that he in fact had a supervising driver. If the court thinks it will make a material difference to sentence, then the court can hold a Newton Hearing to hear evidence on this. I cannot imagine they will go to the time and effort and will probably just accept what your friend says.

Careful not to push too much for technicalities - as the supervising driver, technically you are guilty of causing and permitting the offence - also punishable with 3PP and a fine.

Having asked for free advice, perhaps you should accept what several contributors have now told you.

[jess-star]

Hi there thread is over a year old.

 

My friend I assume is still driving without a license.

 

We had high winds that day and when leaving the air port the magnetic plates were on. Also I wasnt the supervising driver at the time, he was dropped off and I just changed seats assuming everything was ok.

 

When I was learning to drive these got lost for all sorts of silly reasons.

 

Anyway I've washed my hands of my friend and the problems they bring to my life.

[jess-star]

You also forget that police have powers of common sense, they use them little these days.

 

The fact that we were then jumped on by a ar laod that appeared from no where, with me being searched in the street was not welcomed.

 

I'd just returned for a terrible trip away and didnt need to be hounded by over zealous police on my return.

 

Good old police state blighty.... its just keeps on closing in!

[jess-star]

I'm confused. In post 1 the OP says; "When we dropped off the other person, I became the licensed driver"[ Now today he is saying; "When I was picked up, I was not the qualified driver, the person accompanying him was".

 

We don't seem to be getting accurate information here.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Its quite apparent I was picked up by two people, the other supervising him. He was dropped off part way through the journey and i changed seats.

[jess-star]

I dont think you read this properly, my point is that if a car has L plates on a motorway it doesnt necessary warrant being stopped as the driver may not be a provisional driver........

 

I think you only read what you wish to also hon. Thanks tho!

I was illegally stopped and searched.

[SabreSheep]

I was illegally stopped and searched.

 

 

No you were not.

 

What law made the search illegal

What law made the stop illegal.

 

Previous posters tackled this and you have ignored them.

 

I think this thread needs closing, nothing more to be gained form here.

[honeybee13]

I agree Sabre Sheep, the thread seems to have run its course.

 

jess-star, if any new information emerges, then you can contact a member of the site team and ask for the thread to be reopened.

 

HB