(Possible) Driving without due care and attention

[jasmine69]

I approached a junction slowly

 

where I looked both ways before pulling out,

 

noticed a single light and stopped thinking that the motorbike would swerve out of the way.

 

This would have meant him going on the other side of the road to do so ( no oncoming vehicles) but he went straight into me.

 

He has a broken leg but hopefully nothing else physically at least.

 

My car will prob be written off as cheaper than repairs.

 

This stretch of road(I have since found out) is known as bikers paradise as it is a good stretch of straight road to go fast down,

although I cannot prove he was speeding as it all happened so fast.

 

Road was wet and it there was still some v. light snow?

 

The police did ask how far the bike was before I noticed him,

at the time i was asked i was standing by the police car so i pointed to an approximate area.

I am hoping that they meant the distance in general length,

as the police car was further away from where the accident happened,

otherwise it will seem like I meant an area which was nearer to the site

(e.g. 100m from police car but it could look like 50m from my car when I actually meant 100m from my car).

 

This happened last night so still very upset and shaken

but the police did say if I was charged it would be with driving without due care and attention with poss fine and 6 pts.

 

Insurance started to say if I was moving slightly I would be liable but as I had stopped it could be joint liability depending on what police say.

 

Can anyone explain/help me understand better.

 

Also is it def I will be charged and amount of fine as already on CAG debt forum.

Edited February 12, 2013 by jasmine69

[sgtbush]

all i would do for the moment is write down excatly what happend with distances while it is fresh in your head and wait to see what the police/insurance companys are going to do, or attempt to do,

until then i would just sit tight until you know what you are facing

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Jasmine69,

 

You must be feeling very shaken up. Sorry for the motorcyclist too, but it could have been worse for both of you.

 

It's ages since I had something similar - head on with police car - but I do remember I was asked to go to the police station and give a statement and I would imagine that if they are going to take action they would still do this, and you would be able to ask to see their notes and see what they wrote down about the distance.

 

Is this is a straight stretch of road? How far down the road can you actually see? Did the police take any measurements of the skidmarks?

 

I expect someone with more legal knowledge will come along and advise on whether you are likely to be charged. If he is deemed to be at fault I can't see that you would be. That's why the police should have measured the skidmarks as they'd be able to judge the speed at which he was travelling, and if that speed was appropriate for the wet road conditions at the time.

 

Have you googled accidents on this road? You might get something useful there.

 

 

Hope this works out in your favour.

 

DD

[crem]

From the way you describe the accident, I can see no avenue of blame other than it remaining with you. You admit you proceeded to enter the main raod, and having then seen the bike, you can't expect him to have to "swerve" to avoid a collition with a vehicle that is now obstructing his path. Of course, for his own health I am sure he would have if he could, but his failure to do so doesn't make the accident his fault.

Edited February 13, 2013 by crem

[crem]

Hope this works out in your favour.

 

Why would that be Daniella? We appear to have a motorcyclist with a broken leg (maybe more) and undoubtedly a wrecked bike, as well as the damage to jasmine's car.

 

The car driver admits to pulling out in front of a motorbike yet you are "hoping" it goes in their favour. I wonder what your advise would have been if it was the motorcyclist posting on the forum? Probably advising him to sue the car driver for all he could get maybe?

[Desperate Daniella]

crem,

 

If you read my post again you will see that I was trying to establish the facts. Jasmine says she looked both ways before pulling out and as she did so she saw a single light and stopped. You weren't there and neither was I and the road conditions and any bends in the road are relevant. Jasmine may be to blame, but if the motor cyclist was speeding then he was at fault.

 

I live halfway down a street which is on a hill, say 200 yards to the bottom of the hill where there is a 45 degree bend going to the right as you look down, so you cannot see what is coming around the corner. We have a 20 mph speed limit but a number of vehicles including motorcycles choose to race up our street at 50 mph or more. Sometimes I start to cross the road with my small daughter and we have to jump back on the pavement to avoid speeding vehicles. Some of my neighbours have drives. Are you seriously saying that if one of them started to move on to the road, saw a vehicle speeding up the road from their right, stopped and the speeding vehicle hit them it would be their fault?

 

Jasmine does not admit to "pulling out in front of a motorbike" as you say, but says she pulled out and then saw the light. If the accident was the motorcyclist's fault because he was travelling too fast for the road conditions then, yes, I do hope that Jasmine is not prosecuted and if it is deemed that both of them were equally at fault then I hope neither of them is prosecuted.

 

As far as your last comment is concerned, I'd want to establish the facts before advising anyone to sue. There are a lot of poor young lads - beautiful boys in their teens and early 20s - in Stoke Mandeville who will never walk again because of motorbike accidents. Some of them lost control through lack of experience and others were knocked off their bikes through no fault of their own. There are some great motorcyclists and there are some total idiots, like the one who nearly ran into me when he was coming the wrong way out of a one way street and then swore and screamed at me for the near collision. The main point is that everyone, including motorcyclists, needs to be careful and motorcyclists, in particular, need to learn to ride defensively and anticipate that idiot car drivers may do something stupid and so be prepared to stop.

 

DD

[Kiki1]

If the police are involved (as per the original post) then they will be the ones to check distance/road conditions to gather the right data on who is responsible for the incident. There will be little argument once the data is in as there are very few scenarios that are not already in the books.

 

Whilst it is clear there is a link between police investigting an RTA and same prosecuting following an RTA, the o/p appears to be solely concerned about the insurance aspect and potential points.

[jasmine69]

If the police are involved (as per the original post) then they will be the ones to check distance/road conditions to gather the right data on who is responsible for the incident. There will be little argument once the data is in as there are very few scenarios that are not already in the books.

 

 

 

Whilst it is clear there is a link between police investigting an RTA and same prosecuting following an RTA, the o/p appears to be solely concerned about the insurance aspect and potential points.

 

 

 

[jasmine69]

all i would do for the moment is write down excatly what happend with distances while it is fresh in your head and wait to see what the police/insurance companys are going to do, or attempt to do,

 

 

until then i would just sit tight until you know what you are facing

 

Thank you.

Edited February 13, 2013 by jasmine69

[Guest]

but the police did say if I was charged it would be with driving without due care and attention with poss fine and 6 pts.

is up to the cps whether to prosecute or not, and if so on what. Edited February 14, 2013 by Ford

[jasmine69]

crem,<br />

 

 

<br />

 

 

If you read my post again you will see that I was trying to establish the facts. Jasmine says she looked both ways before pulling out and as she did so she saw a single light and stopped. You weren't there and neither was I and the road conditions and any bends in the road are relevant. Jasmine may be to blame, but if the motor cyclist was speeding then he was at fault.<br />

 

 

<br />

 

 

I live halfway down a street which is on a hill, say 200 yards to the bottom of the hill where there is a 45 degree bend going to the right as you look down, so you cannot see what is coming around the corner. We have a 20 mph speed limit but a number of vehicles including motorcycles choose to race up our street at 50 mph or more. Sometimes I start to cross the road with my small daughter and we have to jump back on the pavement to avoid speeding vehicles. Some of my neighbours have drives. Are you seriously saying that if one of them started to move on to the road, saw a vehicle speeding up the road from their right, stopped and the speeding vehicle hit them it would be their fault?<br />

 

 

<br />

 

 

Jasmine does not admit to &quot;pulling out in front of a motorbike&quot; as you say, but says she pulled out and then saw the light. If the accident was the motorcyclist's fault because he was travelling too fast for the road conditions then, yes, I do hope that Jasmine is not prosecuted and if it is deemed that both of them were equally at fault then I hope neither of them is prosecuted.<br />

 

 

<br />

 

 

As far as your last comment is concerned, I'd want to establish the facts before advising anyone to sue. There are a lot of poor young lads - beautiful boys in their teens and early 20s - in Stoke Mandeville who will never walk again because of motorbike accidents. Some of them lost control through lack of experience and others were knocked off their bikes through no fault of their own. There are some great motorcyclists and there are some total idiots, like the one who nearly ran into me when he was coming the wrong way out of a one way street and then swore and screamed at me for the near collision. The main point is that everyone, including motorcyclists, needs to be careful and motorcyclists, in particular, need to learn to ride defensively and anticipate that idiot car drivers may do something stupid and so be prepared to stop.<br />

 

 

<br />

 

 

DD

 

Thank you DD. I have been on the other side where I have sat by a family members side, having been told that he might not make it through the night, following an accident and then that he may never walk again. I will have this in my head for a long time and I am glad this person is alive. I am glad my children were not in the car with me at the time. I know you did not say it but pts on my licence or a injured person, prefer to have pts if I am at fault. I asked about insurance because I have not been in this position before, not because I do not care about the other person. Neither do I know how the law system works and want to understand, but that does not mean as a parent I am dismissing how the injured person or his family are feeling.

 

 

 

J

Edited February 13, 2013 by jasmine69

[Desperate Daniella]

Jasmine,

 

It's quite clear that you were very shaken and concerned about the motorcyclist. No-one would want to be in an accident when another person was injured, regardless of fault, and like you most people would rather take the points on their licence.

 

Hopefully this can be sorted out by the insurance companies without anyone being prosecuted.

 

I am glad your children weren't there too. Last year I had two "prangs" when my daughter was in the car and thank God only the car was a bit bashed. Both were caused by people in a hurry!!! and it's just not worth it.

 

DD

[jasmine69]

I have received a court summons which has option to plead guilty by post. Insurers have said it is better to attend court as more likely to have harsher consequences if you don't. Any thoughts anyone?

[matt v atos]

Depends on what has happened !

[dx100uk]

two threads merged

 

please keep to this thread.

 

IMHO 'only' I would attend.

 

dx

[Ganymede]

I approached a junction slowly

 

where I looked both ways before pulling out,

 

noticed a single light and stopped thinking that the motorbike would swerve out of the way.

 

This would have meant him going on the other side of the road to do so ( no oncoming vehicles) but he went straight into me.

 

He has a broken leg but hopefully nothing else physically at least.

 

My car will prob be written off as cheaper than repairs.

 

This stretch of road(I have since found out) is known as bikers paradise as it is a good stretch of straight road to go fast down,

although I cannot prove he was speeding as it all happened so fast.

 

Road was wet and it there was still some v. light snow?

 

The police did ask how far the bike was before I noticed him,

at the time i was asked i was standing by the police car so i pointed to an approximate area.

I am hoping that they meant the distance in general length,

as the police car was further away from where the accident happened,

otherwise it will seem like I meant an area which was nearer to the site

(e.g. 100m from police car but it could look like 50m from my car when I actually meant 100m from my car).

 

This happened last night so still very upset and shaken

but the police did say if I was charged it would be with driving without due care and attention with poss fine and 6 pts.

 

Insurance started to say if I was moving slightly I would be liable but as I had stopped it could be joint liability depending on what police say.

 

Can anyone explain/help me understand better.

 

Also is it def I will be charged and amount of fine as already on CAG debt forum.

 

 

 

I think you are going to be fully at fault for this one in terms of a civil claim sorry.

 

 

Edit: Sorry didn't see a summons had been received.

[Ganymede]

if the motor cyclist was speeding then he was at fault.

 

 

 

 

Not true.

[Guest]

I have received a court summons which has option to plead guilty by post. Insurers have said it is better to attend court as more likely to have harsher consequences if you don't. Any thoughts anyone?

 

seek criminal solicitor advice/representation if poss. depend on yr circs, maybe entitled to 'legal aid'.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Ford

[havinastella]

What is the 'summons' for?

[Desperate Daniella]

Not true.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean the motorcyclist was entirely to blame for the accident. The point I was making was that if he was speeding and came round a bend so quickly that Jasmine could not have reasonably been expected to see him before she pulled out then he would have contributed to the accident.

[Desperate Daniella]

Jasmine,

 

I think you should attend Court. You will have your opportunity to say what happened from your point of view.

 

If you cannot pay any fine immediately you can apply to the Court to pay by instalments.

[edjama]

I think you should take advice from a solicitor on this matter. IMO you should attend court as, even if pleading guilty, you can explain mitigation. You need attend the scene and try to work out what distance the bike was as you pulled out, and at what point you saw him.

A bike won't swerve easily as a car and also won't always stop as quick. In your original post you say you pulled out, saw him, then decided to stop thinking he'd swerve. In the heat of the moment that seems a long thought process suggesting there was somre distance between you and the bike. What was estimated impact speed?

If you feel you could not possiby have seen him earlier then take photos of the scene and any "street Furniture" or trees that hampered your view.

Get a copy of all evidence before the court date so you know all the facts.