Notice about tax disc - but think I was on private property

[sgtbush]

just from reading the 1st statement in the OP title, the car may be driven DIRECTLY TO A PRE BOOKED MOT TEST CENTRE for the test

AND DRIVEN DIRECTLY HOME AFTERWARDS IF IT FAILS

 

however the car is not taxed and therefore shouldnt be kept or driven on a public highway under any circumstaces.

a low loader or trailer therefore should of been used

you cannot even tow an untaxed car on the road as far as i know

 

Vehicle has failed MOT test or insurance certificate has not arrived

 

If you intend to renew your vehicle tax you should do so before your current tax disc expires. However, this isn't always possible if your vehicle has failed an MOT or you’re waiting for insurance.

You’ll be committing an offence if you use or keep your vehicle on the public road without a current tax disc. If you can't get a tax disc, you must keep the vehicle off road. While your vehicle is off the road, you have 14 days in which to get a tax disc or make a SORN

Edited February 11, 2013 by sgtbush

[Raykay]

 

however the car is not taxed and therefore shouldnt be kept or driven on a public highway under any circumstaces.

a low loader or trailer therefore should of been used

you cannot even tow an untaxed car on the road as far as i know

It would have been an exempt vehicle.

 

The OP's query is that it is parked in a private car park, and he has received a police ticket for no licence.

It

[crem]

I would of thought that was obvious.

Not obvious at all.

It would appear that the DVLA think that the car has been driven on a public road while SORNd/un-taxed as the car has been moved and is now at a different location.

The DVLA can "think" what they like, but unless the vehicle was actually seen on a public road, then they can't just "assume" it must have been driven to get to another location.

 

So, if the OP can prove that the reason the car has been driven was for the purpose of taking it to a pre-booked MOT (which I believe is the only exemption), then that may satisfy the DVLA thus preventing the OP from incurring any penalties.

 

OP doesn't have to prove anything, the DVLA would have to prove by presenting evidence that teh car has been driven whilst SORN'd

[sailor sam]

OP doesn't have to prove anything, the DVLA would have to prove by presenting evidence that teh car has been driven whilst SORN'd

 

Clearly you didn't read the OPs original post properly. The police notice states that it was SEEN ON A PUBLIC ROAD on Feb 9th and a report had been submitted to the DVLA..

[crem]

That would be the standed phrase they would use on the police notice to attach to the vehicle. It does not mean they actually saw it on Friday driving on a public road.

 

The day they are stating it was SEEN is February 9th, which was the SATURDAY. The OP has already confirmed that the car was parked in the private car park all of Saturday.

[sailor sam]

Well all the OP can do at this stage is wait to see if he gets anything from the DVLA. If the OPs account is true, he should have nothing to worry about.

[Herewe]

I emailed the highways info of my local council yesterday but have still not received a reply. It's proving so difficult to confirm whether the road in question was public or private. I would have thought that for the reasons I mentioned before it must surely not be the public road, but you people are telling me this is not necessarily so? Is there any way I can confirm quicker?

 

As it happens I did have a pre booked MOT on Friday, but this seems to be totally immaterial as the date of the alleged offence was Saturday. Unless the police took photos, then I assume the only evidence DVLA will be relying on will be the testimony of the police stating where they saw it parked and when - this will be the Saturday, what happened on Friday or any other day is purely guess work and not relevent to the report that was made. If what the police officer says is the only evidence, and it goes to court then I can't see why one person's word would be taken over mine. But anyway, the point is that the SORN vehicle is parked in what I believe is a private car park in a parking space I have a private permit for, but is the road a public road where it could constitute an offence? If it is a public road then albeit not in the spirit of the law it would appear I have committed an offence. If not then I have committed no offence.

 

I suspect that in either event whether the road was private or public and whether I'm innocent or not, checking these facts will not be DVLA's first concern and their first line of action will be to start demanding money from me. It will then prove impossible to get an intelligent person to act reasonably. I'm aware that they will even feign court action without a totally valid case just to try and force me into paying, I've dealt with their ploys before.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Is it possible that the vehicle was seen on the public highway flagged up on NPR and tracked to the ''private'' road???

[Herewe]

I don't see how, since the address registered for the car is some miles away. If that were the case and it flagged up on NPR somewhere surely they would just send the report to DVLA, I can't see them making it a major police search of every place in the area just to affix a piece of paper (even though it's Surrey Police and anything to avoid any real work!). Plus it states the date of the 'offence' was Saturday - the car did not move that day.

[renegadeimp]

It might be a simple case that the officer didnt know it was a private road. There is a road half a mile from where i live that is a private road, and people who live down there regularly do 70 down it. Silly? Sure. But its not illegal. Didn't stop the police trying to arrest the drivers down there and sending them to court. However, one of the people arrested was a well known and wealthy solicitor, and won the case by gaining info from the county council and the land registry to prove that it was indeed private land.

 

The sad thing is, it took the better part of half a million of taxpayers cash, simply because the officer wouldnt admit he messed up.

[Kiki1]

you cannot even tow an untaxed car on the road as far as i know

 

Off topic, but if a tow bar is used, as opposed to a rope, then technically both vehicles are classed as one, and normal towing legislation does not apply

[Surfer01]

It is possible that UKPC reported the vehicle to the police and stated that they had seen it been driven on a public road. I think that is the more likely explanation. What UKPC did not know when they made a report to the police is that it went to a pre-booked MOT inspection.

The difficulty will be explaining why it was not sent through the MOT and may be regarded as a ploy to drive it to a different address. As for the date, it probably relates to the day the ticket was issued and can be overturned, but a new ticket can be issued for the day before.

[sailor sam]

It might be a simple case that the officer didnt know it was a private road. There is a road half a mile from where i live that is a private road, and people who live down there regularly do 70 down it. Silly? Sure. But its not illegal. Didn't stop the police trying to arrest the drivers down there and sending them to court. However, one of the people arrested was a well known and wealthy solicitor, and won the case by gaining info from the county council and the land registry to prove that it was indeed private land.

 

The sad thing is, it took the better part of half a million of taxpayers cash, simply because the officer wouldnt admit he messed up.

 

That depends on the severity of offence being committed and whether the land (or road) has un-restricted public access. RTA can be applicable for certain offences on un-restricted private land.

[sailor sam]

It is possible that UKPC reported the vehicle to the police and stated that they had seen it been driven on a public road. I think that is the more likely explanation. What UKPC did not know when they made a report to the police is that it went to a pre-booked MOT inspection.

The difficulty will be explaining why it was not sent through the MOT and may be regarded as a ploy to drive it to a different address. As for the date, it probably relates to the day the ticket was issued and can be overturned, but a new ticket can be issued for the day before.

 

Exactly!

[Herewe]

It is possible that UKPC reported the vehicle to the police and stated that they had seen it been driven on a public road. I think that is the more likely explanation. What UKPC did not know when they made a report to the police is that it went to a pre-booked MOT inspection.

The difficulty will be explaining why it was not sent through the MOT and may be regarded as a ploy to drive it to a different address. As for the date, it probably relates to the day the ticket was issued and can be overturned, but a new ticket can be issued for the day before.

 

Not really. I know what the UKPC parking inspector looks like and what times he works, and the CCTV cameras do not have any view of the public road and they don't have ANPR that could tell them it was untaxed. Looks like Surrey Police just wasting time and the public's money by driving around private apartment complexes running PNCs.

There are two dates on the ticket, one stating the date the alleged offence took place and one next to the signature - both are for Saturday when it never moved. So anything that took place on Friday or any other day is irrelevent as nothing has been alleged or witnessed.

[Herewe]

I've emailed the council highways info and the DVLA to try and find out about whether the road is public or not. Still nothing!!

It should not be this difficult to find out something that they expect you to know to comply with this legislation.

How can I find out quicker the status of the road?

[sailor sam]

I've emailed the council highways info and the DVLA to try and find out about whether the road is public or not. Still nothing!!

It should not be this difficult to find out something that they expect you to know to comply with this legislation.

How can I find out quicker the status of the road?

 

I'm beginning to think that isn't the problem. I think they (the DVLA) will be more interested on whether the car has been driven on the road while SORNd when it shouldn't have been. They will be interested because the car has moved from the RK address to where it is now. I think that is the issue.

 

I suggest you sit tight until you hear anything from the DVLA.

[Raykay]

DVLA wouldn't know where the vehicle was kept, all they have is the address of the registered keeper.

[Herewe]

I've today received a reply from Highways Information saying that it is a privately maintained road. My understanding of SORN is that the vehicle is kept off the public road, it doesn't matter where or if its the RK address, it can be your mothers garage, your girlfriends private drive, etc. just off the public road. So it seems no offence has been committed. Surrey Police really need to do some real work, or be charged with wasting police time.

[Raykay]

As you say, it doesn't matter where it is, it can be SORN as long as it is not used or kept on a public road - s.31B (3), Vehicles Excise & Registration Act, 1994.

[Tony P]

Surrey Police really need to do some real work, or be charged with wasting police time.

 

And ours

[Herewe]

The rot from the Swansea office would of course never miss out on an opportunity to try to get more money out of innocent people, regardless of whether they're right or not.

 

I have received a letter stating that the car was parked at the location I said (the private road) without tax (which is obvious as the car was SORN and kept on the private road they stated, so nothing has been done wrong by me) and they require I pay them £100 otherwise they will take me to court.

 

On the day I found the warning notice on the car, I wrote to the DVLA and the Highway Agency. The Highway Agency responded stating that from the information they had available the road was a private road. DVLA did not bother to respond.

 

I've just tried calling them to address this and find that the only thing they do is take payment over the phone - they don't do anything else over the phone which shows where their priorities lie. Everybody you speak to is arrogant and acts like you owe them everything.

 

On the form that they demand that I return under threat of court action they of course only give me a space of 2cm to explain my side, which they are obviously not interested in.

 

From my experience they will only prove increasingly difficult to contact and not forthcoming about any communications on the matter - my worry is that I will one day just receive a court summons without having been given a fair chance here. I simply want them to confirm whether or not they have evidence to the contrary that the road I was parked on was a public road, if it is and I can be made aware of this then of course I will accept that an offence has been committed and want to pay the out of court settlement. Crooked DVLA practices may push me into a corner I don't want to be in as they are designed to do. They hang up on my calls, ignore my emails and letters, all I can do is fill in this form and wait for them to ignore that -- all the time I'm at their mercy fearing where their corrupt ineptitude may lead.

 

Does anybody have an email address that they actually respond to, or a phone number that actually gets you through to somebody?

[renegadeimp]

You need to remember, the DVLA is a private company contracted to the government. They act just like any other company would.

[Herewe]

True - but the key difference between them and any other private company is that they get away with whatever they want, treat people however they choose and are never held to account for their actions that persecute innocent people, it seems as if they operate above the law.

 

There's something rotten in Swansea... IT'S THE DVLA!

[Tony P]

Forget phoning - it achieves little and there is no record.

 

Write enclosing a copy of the Council's information that the location was privatey maintained and demand they confirm in writing withdrawal of the matter or you will see them in Court, armed with the Council's information.