Sigma SPV1 Ltd court claim form for M & S store/credit card***Discontinued**

[cleo4patra]

Did you respond to their CCA that they sent you Cleo ?

 

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request and I am therefore advising that the matter is now in dispute . Whilst the matter is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Hi 42 man

- need assistance with a letter. I am not asking for advice but I really think I should write. They terminated my agrreement (Preference Account ) on the back of an inval DN - said would pass on to DCA within 48 hrs. This has not happened. As I understand it they can only chase me for the arrears.

I SAR'd them as I think charges could equal arrears at the time of termination - however they keep sending me statements (arrears are increasing all the time) afdding charges, and interest.

 

I think I should write telling them they can only chase me for arrears at the time of termination, that they have committed rescission of contract and that charges would equal arrears so they should write everything off? quoting relevant parts of the act - I don't think I can just leave it as the arrears will eventually equal total debt!

 

thanks

cleo

[cleo4patra]

BOS preference terminated on the back of an invalid DN Nov 2008. I have been expecting it to be passed on to a DCA (within 48 hours they said) I have never had a response to my CCA - they took the 2 x £1 fees off the account. I have SARd them also - still waiting.

 

They keep sending me statements, charging me £25.00 default fee and adding interest and the arrears are going up all the time. As I understand it they can only chase for arrears as they were at the time of termination - but at this rate they will equal the total debt eventually. I really think I should write (rescission of contract on their part)

any suggestions??

thanks

cleo

Help needed with a letter!!

[Fred Bassett]

BOS preference terminated on the back of an invalid DN Nov 2008. I have been expecting it to be passed on to a DCA (within 48 hours they said) I have never had a response to my CCA - they took the 2 x £1 fees off the account. I have SARd them also - still waiting.

 

They keep sending me statements, charging me £25.00 default fee and adding interest and the arrears are going up all the time. As I understand it they can only chase for arrears as they were at the time of termination - but at this rate they will equal the total debt eventually. I really think I should write (rescission of contract on their part)

any suggestions??

thanks

cleo

Help needed with a letter!!

 

Hi Cleo,

 

I would write to them and ask one simple question: "Please confirm that this is a credit card agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

 

That will get them going.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[cleo4patra]

In waht way will it get them going?

[Fred Bassett]

Cleo, I'm forgetting that you don't have your CCA request fulfilled yet. When you do, that's when the fun starts. This is a really strange kind of card - acting like a cross between a credit card and a bank account. If/when you get the copy agreement, that's when you can start to question the validity of it.

 

In the meantime, they can't do a thing and in particular they are not allowed to pursue the debt or add charges or interest.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[cleo4patra]

Cleo, I'm forgetting that you don't have your CCA request fulfilled yet. When you do, that's when the fun starts. This is a really strange kind of card - acting like a cross between a credit card and a bank account. If/when you get the copy agreement, that's when you can start to question the validity of it.

 

In the meantime, they can't do a thing and in particular they are not allowed to pursue the debt or add charges or interest.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

But they are adding charges and interest and keep sending me arrears notices on an account that THEY have closed. I am writing to them telling them so and have used some cases from some posts on this site.

I have told them they should not be processing our personal info/charging us interest or charges or pursuing the debt. I have told them i am going to seek compensation for unlawful rescission of contract.

[empowered]

Cleo

If you were me, and I have been down this route with MBNA and faulty DN!, I would not contact them anymore. You are wasting your time and postage and just putting up your blood pressure!. Let them add charges, interest and take you to court - then the fun will start when you can throw the book at them. However, it probably won't get to court because they know they are at fault and hope that by constantly harrassing you, you will cave in and pay. Try and ignore them - it is not for you to keep reminding them of the errors of their ways - let them discover it when it is too late for them;)

[cleo4patra]

Cleo

If you were me, and I have been down this route with MBNA and faulty DN!, I would not contact them anymore. You are wasting your time and postage and just putting up your blood pressure!. Let them add charges, interest and take you to court - then the fun will start when you can throw the book at them. However, it probably won't get to court because they know they are at fault and hope that by constantly harrassing you, you will cave in and pay. Try and ignore them - it is not for you to keep reminding them of the errors of their ways - let them discover it when it is too late for them;)

thanks for that - I sent a letter off with a long list of complaints and seeking compensation for rescission of contract - by recorded delivery. I can move on now - and if it does go to court i have got evidence that i did something.

 

thanks again

[creditcardmug]

I agree with empowered's post above, if the app form has no prescribed terms, an the DN is defective, then they would not succeed in court(if you played your cards right).

 

It might at this stage be worth considering writing to say that you note that they do not have an enforceable agreement, and that under the circumstances you require all fees/charges and interest thereon to be refunded to the account, and that none will be added in the future.

 

Remember they have no right to add these , as it isnt in the "agreement".

 

I think this is the route i'm going to take with them next.

[cleo4patra]

I agree with empowered's post above, if the app form has no prescribed terms, an the DN is defective, then they would not succeed in court(if you played your cards right).

 

It might at this stage be worth considering writing to say that you note that they do not have an enforceable agreement, and that under the circumstances you require all fees/charges and interest thereon to be refunded to the account, and that none will be added in the future.

 

Remember they have no right to add these , as it isnt in the "agreement".

 

I think this is the route i'm going to take with them next.

in the post today i received an acknowledgement for my SAr for this preference account and that all info will be provided within the time limit. What i want to know - is that really relevant as they have terminated the "agreement". I put in my letter that I needed the info to calculate said interest and charges so that is probably my nest step also - thanks

[cleo4patra]

I agree with empowered's post above, if the app form has no prescribed terms, an the DN is defective, then they would not succeed in court(if you played your cards right).

 

It might at this stage be worth considering writing to say that you note that they do not have an enforceable agreement, and that under the circumstances you require all fees/charges and interest thereon to be refunded to the account, and that none will be added in the future.

 

Remember they have no right to add these , as it isnt in the "agreement".

 

I think this is the route i'm going to take with them next.

Thanks - they have yet to produce anything resembling an application form or agreement. However they terminated the agreement in the same post as DN notice. DN notice was received four days after final (incorrect )date of remedy. have kept the envelopes.

[cleo4patra]

Hello Cleo4patra!

 

Ah, so it's not the same Terms as they've been sending other people, but pretty poop nevertheless.

 

Looks like a bunch of almost unreadable Microfiche Scans, and some of it, as you say, is somebody else's unreadable thing.

 

The Terms don't seem to be from the same Scan either, so could be from anywhere.

 

It's unlikely they'll have the Original, so linking this little lot together will present something of a problem for them, as will complying with CPR PD 16 7.3.

 

I think all they have is a poor Microfiche Scan of your Application Form. The heading of that is suspect too, that's if they wanted this to become an Agreement...

 

See: Consumer Credit Act (1974) and related Regulations

 

It has the wrong Heading if they want this Application Form to become a Credit Card Agreement. They've omitted the word Card. See Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983/1553. Schedule 1 of SI 1983/1553 (see link above) says (1(d) applies to your Card):

 

 

 

Plus the Application Form is missing the Prescribed Terms, which is probably why they have included the 2nd Scan of Terms from somewhere else to try and make it seem like the 2nd Page was somehow part of your Application Form.

 

This is an old trick of M&S, and a similar tactic played by many other banks as well. They want you to think the two are related. Plus they want to give the impression they have complied with s78(1), which arguably they have, although that doesn't make what they've sent Enforceable in Court. They can get away with sending all sorts of rubbish back in response to a s78(1) Request, and that's what they appear to have done.

 

What to do next is the harder part. There is always the slim chance that they will have an Original copy of your Application Form, and that may have the Prescribed Terms on the back of it. But don't hold your breath.

 

Pretty unlikely because, if they had it, then why can't they just make a nice crisp 1st Generation Copy of both sides on a nice modern Photocopier?

 

If any key areas of Text cannot be read on the Application Form, then you could write back to say, can't read it, so it doesn't satisfy the legibility issues of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557).

 

Or you can write back and say these two documents are not a copy of a properly executed Regulated Credit Card Agreement, and so until they do come up with a suitable copy, you feel there is no sign that an Agreement actually exists. You will stop payments and do not acknowledge any Debt.

 

Don't rush, take your time and read up on as many CAG Threads as you can to see how you want to play this.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Cheers,

BRW

received a letter asking us to contact them "... a number of options we may not be aware of...2 and "..."At this stage with our cooperation the matter can be resolved without the need for legal proceedings.."????

 

I will be requesting these "options" in writing along with my SAR request

happy new yeaR!! CLEO

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Cleo!

 

received a letter asking us to contact them "... a number of options we may not be aware of...2 and "..."At this stage with our cooperation the matter can be resolved without the need for legal proceedings.."????

 

Don't read too much into the above, it's a Template Letter they send to anyone that starts to argue with them about their naff Agreements.

 

One comment is to keep as much as you can close to your chest, no point giving the enemy too many pointers as to how you will handle them if they elect to push this to Court.

 

Always draft every Letter that you send them with a Judge in mind, i.e. you are not writing to the bank, but to the Judge.

 

Read and re-read what you say before sending, and see how it sounds. Make sure you are clinical, polite and reasonable at all times, but stick to your guns on the key issues.

 

Happy New Year, I hope it's a good one for you.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[cleo4patra]

Hello Cleo!

 

 

 

Don't read too much into the above, it's a Template Letter they send to anyone that starts to argue with them about their naff Agreements.

 

One comment is to keep as much as you can close to your chest, no point giving the enemy too many pointers as to how you will handle them if they elect to push this to Court.

 

Always draft every Letter that you send them with a Judge in mind, i.e. you are not writing to the bank, but to the Judge.

 

Read and re-read what you say before sending, and see how it sounds. Make sure you are clinical, polite and reasonable at all times, but stick to your guns on the key issues.

 

Happy New Year, I hope it's a good one for you.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Thanks for that - I am going to request options in writing - did you see the documents I scanned in - not all mine either!!

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks for that - I am going to request options in writing - did you see the documents I scanned in - not all mine either!!

 

Hello Cleo and a Happy New Year to you.

 

I totally agree with BRW regarding keeping things close to your chest.

 

I have been there, done all of this with M&S, they will threaten and formally oblige to inform you all sorts of things, but they know exactly what they can and cannot do, with this agreement.

 

As I have mentioned before, this ?? application form/???credit agreement that they are trying to fobb off to you, is for your original store card. It does not contain all of the prescribed terms either.

 

Your store card was upgraded, without your consent I might add, because they state they sent Mailers informing you of the changes It will have had a different account no from the credit card that you have now.

 

And this is the basis of your legal arguements IMO. As far as I am concerned they are still in breach of your 77/78 request, because they have not produced the original ca for the credit card.

 

As you have stated, do everything in writing, they also are extremely mindful of the word harassment.

 

The application form that you have pasted up, can you identify any personal details of the other customer. If so this is a serious matter.

 

They did this to me, sent me somebody else's ca, I did write to them telling them of their serious breach of the data protection act and informed them that I had forward the ca to the Information Commissioners Office for safe keeping. Then I sent a complaint to the ICO informing them of M&S serious breach:-D

 

Anyway keep at them and keep your chin up

[cleo4patra]

Hello Cleo and a Happy New Year to you.

 

I totally agree with BRW regarding keeping things close to your chest.

 

I have been there, done all of this with M&S, they will threaten and formally oblige to inform you all sorts of things, but they know exactly what they can and cannot do, with this agreement.

 

As I have mentioned before, this ?? application form/???credit agreement that they are trying to fobb off to you, is for your original store card. It does not contain all of the prescribed terms either.

 

Your store card was upgraded, without your consent I might add, because they state they sent Mailers informing you of the changes It will have had a different account no from the credit card that you have now.

 

And this is the basis of your legal arguements IMO. As far as I am concerned they are still in breach of your 77/78 request, because they have not produced the original ca for the credit card.

 

As you have stated, do everything in writing, they also are extremely mindful of the word harassment.

 

The application form that you have pasted up, can you identify any personal details of the other customer. If so this is a serious matter.

 

They did this to me, sent me somebody else's ca, I did write to them telling them of their serious breach of the data protection act and informed them that I had forward the ca to the Information Commissioners Office for safe keeping. Then I sent a complaint to the ICO informing them of M&S serious breach:-D

 

Anyway keep at them and keep your chin up

Hello and a happy new year. Thanks for that - it will be very useful. I have already written to them about this ??agreement?? and explained some of the info (what I can make out on 2nd page is not ours) It could probably identified by their number on it?

 

I realise that they know what they can and can't do by the way they send a nasty letter , then a nice one.

 

I will do similar to yourself and thanks again and will be very vareful with my wording as always

[Muffintop]

hya can you point out the bit in post 44 that says its an app for a storecard

[angel_1]

hiya cleo and everyone wishing you all a happy and lucky 2009 to us all

 

anyway im back, had no phone or internet over the holidays long story,,,,

 

dont delete the wrong ddi in future memo to myself, lol

 

anyway reading up the updates, ive had similar i must get to scan the info on my own thread later today

 

just wanted to quickly say hi and will chat more laters

 

take care and as always a pleasure to read all the helpful advice from the experienced caggers

 

thank you from me too as ive forever learning

 

angel x

[citizenB]

Deemed service

References to notices or documents being sent ‘by post’ within the Act bring into the

operation the Interpretation Act 1978 by which service is deemed to be effected by

properly addressing and posting a letter containing a document. Unless the contrary is

proved, service will be deemed to have been effected at the time when the letter would

be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

For documents sent in the form of an electronic communication they will, unless the

contrary is proved, be deemed to have been delivered on the working day immediately

following the day on which it was transmitted by the sender.

However, section 69(7) provides that a cancellation notice is treated as effectively

served on the addressee at the time of posting. This section is therefore amended to

include an equivalent rule for notices of cancellation sent in the form of an electronic

communication. A cancellation notice transmitted electronically is deemed to be served

at the time of transmission. This is an exception to the deemed delivery provision

contained in the new section 176A (2).

Found it!!

 

 

Where exactly did you find this please ?. Do you still have a link. Thanks

[Falcokeith]

just subbing.

Keep up the good work

[cleo4patra]

Where exactly did you find this please ?. Do you still have a link. Thanks

Hi - I think I googled it? However there is a lot of reference to this issue on this forum. If I find the link I will pass it on - make sure you keep any envelopes stuff arrives in!

[cleo4patra]

Where exactly did you find this please ?. Do you still have a link. Thanks

Hi cleo again - I found this posted by "Banker rhymes with" if it is of any help in a thread about date of issue default notices. But please check first before quoting as i am not legally qualified and reasonable new to the site

Council Tax Manual - Section 3 - Appendix 3.6 - Service of documents by post

 

Appendix 3.6 - Service of documents by post

 

All Text Amended

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

"7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

 

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

 

"With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

 

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

[citizenB]

:DMany thanks for that information cleo4patra.. if it was posted by BRW, then we can both be pretty well assured it is correct. I have copied it for future reference.

[angel_1]

cleo and everyone wishing you all a lucky 2009

 

me copied too the postal info ta muchly, sent you a ta muchly poke lol:D

 

laters angel x

[cleo4patra]

I have found BRW and 42man most knowledgeable.