I Am Fuming at RBS

[shortieb]

I am absolutely fuming at RBS and would like any advice, suggestions from anyone as to what I should do next apart from tear my hair out.

 

I am joint executor of my late mother's will.

 

My brother asked if he could handle the administration of it on his own and was told, categorically, through a lawyer he has acting for him in another matter, absolutely no way.

 

He told his lawyer he would contact me. He did not.

 

Now he has emptied one of my mother's bank acounts with RBS and the bank is telling me it's a family dispute and to seek legal advice.

 

They sent me a copy of the will he used which names me as co-executor but from which my address is missing so it's not a true copy.

 

Apart from that, because he's **Expletived deleted ** - and an ex RBS employee - I'm having to fork out to get a Grant of Administration and am just about to ask the bank how they propose I do that when they've allowed him to empty the account.

 

 

And I'm threatening the Ombudsman.

 

Apart from sending me a copy of the will he used, which they must have believed to be a true copy of a certified document, they are refusing to send me any correspondence they had from him in the "winding up of the estate". I can't believe it.

 

I am a joint executor and involved in the winding up of the estate.

 

They have, basically, changed my mother's will.

Edited September 21, 2012 by citizenB

[citizenB]

I am wondering if you could try a Subject Access Request, although as this is your Mother's account - obviously you would have to prove that you are executor of your Mother's estate for them to release information.

 

I will alert site team to see if anyone else has any ideas.

[shortieb]

Thanks for that CitizenB - I wondered about that myself. I'm so angry I'm almost in tears. They don't need to identify me because when I found out what he'd done I phoned them and got told about the will with my address missing from it. It took three letters to get them to send me that although they sent me all the letters they'd sent to him - which included an indemnity. They said on the phone that it was their policy, if the account contained less than 10k, to allow the first one to appear with the correct documentation to close it or whatever???! But today's letter when I asked what else they'd received from my brother just made my blood boil. I thought that banks were only authorised to pay according to the paperwork they had and there are two executors named. I'm so angry I can't find the words to express how I feel properly. Your reply is appreciated and it'll be interesting to see what others think about trying a SAR on them. Talk about caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. The police won't act - unless they get told that a missing address on what is supposed to be a copy of a certified document is "irregular by a lawyer who specialies in that"? I tried point out that yes it was "irregular" and was used to obtain money by deception but they won't do anything. What on earth is happening in this country?

[citizenB]

I can well imagine your frustration and Banks seem to make the rules up as they go along 99% of the time. I am sure that someone will be able to help.. but it might not be until later this evening or over the weekend.

[shortieb]

Thanks for that. I feel better just having got this aired here. God knows what it would be like without a site like this where at least you can see you're not on your own against these crooks. I can't believe they're allowed to change what are the terms and conditions of a will. If I'm joint executor then I'm joint executor. Their reply to me today has really hit me hard. It's not even grammatically correct, as you'll see. I've left out names and stuff:

"Please note that we have sent all paperwork which was sent to the previous correspondent to you. As advised in your letter regarding the page numbers; every other page within the bank prints out blank (which we did not enclose in our previous letters).

"Please be advised due to bank procedure and confidentiality I am unable to release any documentation or letters which was provided to us within the wind up of the estate of the late......

"As this is a family dispute I suggest that you receive further information from legal advice."

My reply at the moment although I won't be posting it till Monday is currently:

"Thank you for your correspondence of September 12, which, quite simply, astonishes me.

Can you tell me what your alleged family dispute has to do with this issue? There is no dispute. My mother’s will is quite clear. I am a joint executor. And can you also tell me why I should seek legal advice – at my own expense? You are a bank and, as such, are only

authorised to pay out money according to the paperwork you receive. You have not done that. You received a Death Certificate and a will which named two executors. You paid out to one without informing the other.not only that but I would imagine that you required a copy of the Certified Will. The copy you got had been changed, for whatever reason, so was not a true copy of the will and should not have been passed off as such. I see from your correspondence that you required my brother to sign an indemnity. You are indemnified, especially as you were given a not a true copy of the will. I am not, except by law.

You say you cannot provide documentation or letters provided to you within the wind up of the estate. I suggest you have a look at the names on the will and you will see that I am someone who is involved in the wind up of the estate. I now need a Grant of Administration and there is no account available to pay for it because you have allowed the closure of the account. I would like to know what your proposals are about that?

I am now going to the Ombudsman and, in the meantime, await your proposals for rectifying this situation.

Yours sincerely,"

[citizenB]

Yes, I suggest leaving the sending of the letter until Monday when others have had a chance to give some input. I imagine it probably released a bit of tension simply putting it in writing !!

 

The letter from them definitely lacks joined up thinking and an appalling lack of grammar !!

[shortieb]

Thanks for the voice of sanity CitizenB. It was actually getting me to wonder if it was my own thinking that wasn't joined up. It's like living in cloud cuckoo land where the police won't do what they're supposed to do, the banks can change wills....... God help us all.

[IdaInFife]

I do believe a sar only covers a 'living individual' so wouldn't apply - i will try to confirm this but am sure i came across this when I was dealing with family death.

 

Is the estate over £5000? has a grant of confirmation been applied for and granted?

 

What i 'think' the bank means by family dispute is that if you believe that he has doctored a document then you need to report this to the police.

[shortieb]

Thanks IdaInFife. The estate is worth more than £5,000 and has been called a "small estate" by my brother who said that a Grant of Administration wasn't needed because of this yet went onto empty accounts, etc. He has sacked my mother's flat - police refused to get involved because he'd had POA - and has not shown me any proper accounts. When I discovered that he'd emptied one bank account, I approached the bank. The police said to get the paperwork, i.e. see if he'd forged my signature or anything. I got a copy of the will he'd used which had a blank space where my address should have been. I took that to the police but they still said there could be a reason for that and refuse to accept that the obvious reason was to obtain money by deception. But my point is that any alleged family dispute has nothing to do with the bank and I have amended the letter I propose to send to them - the first one was angry because I was so angry.

It now reads:

"Thank you for your correspondence of September 12.

I would respectfully point out that any alleged family dispute has nothing to do with this issue. There is no dispute. My mother’s will is quite clear. I am joint executor.

You say you cannot provide documentation or letters provided to you “ within the wind up of the estate”. I have a legal duty to wind up that estate and now find myself in a position of struggling to do so as there is no longer any account containing funds. For example, I need a Grant of

Administration and would like to know how the bank proposes I should pay for that or for any legal expenses involved in the winding up of that estate.

I understand that banks are only authorised to pay out money according to the paperwork they receive. It is my contention that you have failed to comply with this regulation.

I see from the paperwork that you have supplied me with that you have an indemnity from my brother. I assume that when you required a copy of the will, you required a copy of the certified document. The fact that my address has been deleted, for whatever reason, means that the copy you were given is not a true copy of the certified document and that it should never have been passed off as such.

I would assume that fact would allow you to put the indemnity into effect.

I would like you to treat this as a formal complaint and would like to hear your proposals on rectifying the situation I now find myself in of being required to diligently wind up my late mother’s estate without the means to do so. I intend taking this matter to the Ombudsman if you are unable to remedy the position you have placed me in.

I look forward to hearing from you

Yours sincerely,"

I suspect that they may have written to my brother after receiving, initially my telephone call, then my letter asking for a copy of the will he used that they required, which is why they're saying a family dispute. I don't know. I just know that they do not or should not have any right whatsoever to favour one executor when two are named and any family dispute they allege or that exists is none of their business. It's a dreadful situation where no-one wants to do anything and my brother can just do what he likes.

[citizenB]

another idea that might be worth exploring..

 

I wonder if the Probate Office would be any help in advising ?

[shortieb]

Thanks for that CitizenB. I've already contacted the local sheriff court but all I got was a link to an advice site. I'm going to go into the court next week and see if I can buttonhole someone into advising me. I need a Grant of Administration because, not only has my brother not provided me with any accounts (nor, needless to say a penny piece), he has also held onto ever penny in his personal bank account. Added to that, when I discovered the bank had paid out to him, he wanted to use the money from that account for something totally different from the will. He was almost contestingno-one to gainsay him. He just wants to hang onto everything and I know of bank accounts that he hasn't told me about. I think the estate is worth more than he's told me about which is probably why he's been so desperate to carry out the administration on his own, even though it meant deleting my address from a copy of a certified document. I've been having to write round all the other financial institutions telling them that under no circumstances have they to pay out any money to him and providing them with a true copy of the will. It's slow progress.

Edited September 21, 2012 by shortieb
grammatically appalling

[IdaInFife]

just something that came to me there,

 

I do know different banks have different process'. I cannot find any clarification that a bank has to deal with both executors. Most say one or the other,

 

what i can say that is when i dealt with RBS on the behalf of my sister, they would only pay out any credit to the funeral director, which would be comparatively small to which you are claiming.

 

Because of the nature of your inquiry, and my eyes are sore from trying to find out , i don't think anyone can give you a definite answer i think you will need to consult a lawyer. You may have this covered under any house insurance you may have, give them a call you never know. Or some offer first half hour free.

[shortieb]

Thank you IdaInFife for trying to help - I'm sorry about your eyes being sore, looking up things to help me and I really appreciate that. The bank paid out for the funeral but they then allowed my brother to close and empty the account, sending him a cheque for the remainder of the money which was deposited into his personal account. He didn't tell me this. The bank, I'm sure, doesn't have to deal with both executors but it does only have authorisation to pay out according to the paperwork it has. It had a will with two executors named on it but allowed only one to close the account and empty it of funds. It made my brother sign an indemnity so it can claw the money back given that he used a copy of the will that wasn't a true copy of the original certified document at all. It's my contention that the bank still owes the money and it's up to the bank to get the money back. You say see a lawyer but that's part of my point. If I need to see a lawyer - as joint executor of my mum's will - where are the funds to allow me to do so?

Edited September 21, 2012 by shortieb
missed a bit out