Another SWT First Class problem

[just_regular]

Hi all... I've been reading the threads and my case is pretty similar to TomT72.

 

I was feeling terrible while waiting on the platform, had already missed one train and had to board otherwise would be late for work.

 

Upon entry, I could already see the carriage has no seats and was filling up and I needed speace to breath and calm down. My intent was to cut through 1st to go to the other compartment of the carriage but someone was coming in from the other entrance so I ended up sitting down and then a lady came to sit beside me.

 

The RPI dealt with her first and she was pretty firey wanting to buy a ticket etc. He was totally not taking any prisoners and since I was pretty much resigned to my fate after her argument, handed my travelcard which failed to read on his machine and gave my details. I didnt say anything apart from confirming i have an annual oyster travelcard.

 

I then received a letter from their prosecutions department to consider whether legal proceedings are appropriate(they misspelt my name too and also on the court summons). To which I replied explaining my circumstance and was quite strong worded in describing the nil empathy of their staff.

 

What I failed to mention was that, like the passenger beside me, I would have paid the fare difference which was nominal, £3 or bought a full ticket. But since I did not say anything to the RPI, I left it out of the letter. (I should say since I know now that in the letter, I did not claim liability nor responsibility).

 

I did not receive any response from them and I have received a summons for Monday 25th and am somewhat resigned to my fate of pleading guilty (I should have researched or taken better advice but have been naive in dealing with this matter).

 

I called SWT prosecution officer and said that I did not want the case to go to court and that I would prefer to achieve a settlement. She said as I have not taken liability nor responsbility, they will proceed with court action.

 

I just wanted to find out if there is anything I should do at this point. Briefly: summon to Magistrates Courts - contravened Bye Law 19. I had received the sumons on Tuesday evening and am pleading guilty asking the court to deal with the case in my absence. However they want to have the paperwork 3 days before the court case (for absence in proceedings) and I would not have been able to achieve this time frame. They should have the paperwork tomorrow.

 

Should I still turn up for Monday? Is it correct that the max penalty would be £1k?This is a first offence and it was a mistake. Normally standing like sardines is what I would do but on this morning, I just couldn't cope mentally and physically and find myself in this unfortunate situation.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I've started a new thread for you rather than leave your problem on someone else's. Please continue to post here. I'll also edit in some paragraphs so the guys here will find it easier to read.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

It's worth turning up for Court and pleading your case in my opinion.

 

If you still have a desire to settle out of Court, attend and when you book in with the Usher ask him/her if you can speak to the prosecutor. You may be able to convince him/her to settle out of Court, but if you do, be sure to have enough cash with you to pay their costs and any unpaid fare.

 

If they don't agree, you can always put a guilty plea in person as this will ensure you get the maximum credit and you may be able to convince the Court to be lenient. Make sure you apologise and undertake not to repeat the 'error'.

 

If convicted, the Level 3 fine will be reduced for an early guilty plea and the entry level for a first offence is equal to the average weelky wage assessed at £400. This is reduced by 50% because there is no intent to be proven in a breach of Byelaw case and with the guilty plea also taken into accountm, you can expect a fine that will probably be around £125 or less. You may be ordered to pay the prosecutors' costs, probably around £150 and a victim surcharge which is a fixed fee of £15 plus the first class fare. A total of around £300 or so.

[just_regular]

Thank you Old-CodJA. I'm very glad for your time, advice and knowlegde.I have thought to call the SWT prosecutor again today to apologise and clarify that it is not my intent to take advantage despite my personal situation etc and again try to reach settlement out of court. But seeing as her parting words to me yesterday was 'you can't just pay to make it go away', I really am at a lost if she will be interested in my growing up overnight. Also, in the RPI's witness statement, he claims to have asked me why I was sitting in First to which I apparently said "it was busy that's why I am in hear, and now I want to leave"While I didn't say anything, I would still be pleading guilty to his statement? How damaging is this for me?

[MrHat]

Can I be nosey and ask which stations this was between?

[just_regular]

Sure. Surbiton to London Waterloo (last stop on train originating from Woking).

[MrHat]

Thought it might be Surbiton. They have been targeting that specific route a lot in recent months (it is my commute to work every day!). A lot of people get on at that stop and as it's busy, some people give themselves free upgrades and think they can get away with it as the train is too busy for the guard to get through. Your problem is that everytime someone gets caught(by a RPI), they act as if they are a the victim, act self-righteously, and come up with a whole range of excuses. The woman next to you (the fiery one who 'wanted to buy a ticket/upgrade') is a typical example of this. Problem with her approach is that it is clear that she would have avoided the fare if noone had challenged her.

[just_regular]

Thought it might be Surbiton. They have been targeting that specific route a lot in recent months (it is my commute to work every day!). A lot of people get on at that stop and as it's busy, some people give themselves free upgrades and think they can get away with it as the train is too busy for the guard to get through. Your problem is that everytime someone gets caught(by a RPI), they act as if they are a the victim, act self-righteously, and come up with a whole range of excuses. The woman next to you (the fiery one who 'wanted to buy a ticket/upgrade') is a typical example of this. Problem with her approach is that it is clear that she would have avoided the fare if noone had challenged her.

 

Yes I know. This station is crazy. My preferred carriage is mostly at the head of the train/platform as this will be closest carriage to Jubilee underground entrance. It was 'murphy's law' that morning. And yes, I am sure the court has heard every reason/excuse under the sun. So I can only hope for leniency with the charge.

[MrHat]

good luck and dont lose sleep over it. In the grand sceme of things, it's not that serious

[Old-CodJA]

Thank you Old-CodJA. I'm very glad for your time, advice and knowlegde.I have thought to call the SWT prosecutor again today to apologise and clarify that it is not my intent to take advantage despite my personal situation etc and again try to reach settlement out of court. But seeing as her parting words to me yesterday was 'you can't just pay to make it go away', I really am at a lost if she will be interested in my growing up overnight. Also, in the RPI's witness statement, he claims to have asked me why I was sitting in First to which I apparently said "it was busy that's why I am in hear, and now I want to leave"While I didn't say anything, I would still be pleading guilty to his statement? How damaging is this for me?

 

 

If the inspectors' statement is fundamentally correct, if s/he has not made any statements that are false and could be considered prejudicial to any defence, then I suggest the prosecution will succeed and the staff that you spoke to will know that.

 

It is the companys' prerogative to proceed to prosecution and if they believe they are certain of a conviction, they will go ahead.

 

You can still mitigate the penalty by attending and pleading guilty (if you think you are), apologising, giving your explanation and stressing that you have learned by the experience

 

The breach of Byelaw offence is non recordable and therefore normally no more damaging than a relatively minor motoring offence.

[Grotesque]

The woman next to you (the fiery one who 'wanted to buy a ticket/upgrade') is a typical example of this. Problem with her approach is that it is clear that she would have avoided the fare if noone had challenged her.

 

Ironically, her attitude probably hardened the RPI''s attitude towards you which is a shame in that, although you both (NO OFFENCE) were commiting the same offence, your mutual styles of talking to her were very different.

[colony]

Hello I'm interested to know what happened with your case. Please update us.