IND after a Welcome Finance debt

[INDlover]

Thanks Andy,

 

Just got in touch with the CC it's been assigned to and they've said I don't have to pay the allocation fee unless Welcome withdraw their original claim, which is some good news I guess. Is there anything I can do now or do I just have to wait? Is there anything I can prepare in the mean time?

 

Also is it worth me contacting Welcome?

 

Thanks!

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Andy,

 

Just got in touch with the CC it's been assigned to and they've said I don't have to pay the allocation fee unless Welcome withdraw their original claim, (of course because you then become the PT20 Claimant) which is some good news I guess. Is there anything I can do now or do I just have to wait? Is there anything I can prepare in the mean time? Read read and read here on CAG particularly the successes legal section

 

Also is it worth me contacting Welcome? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Andy

[INDlover]

Thanks Andy,

 

I'll get reading! Will post as soon as I hear anything.

 

Thanks.

[INDlover]

Hey everyone, here's an update on my case.

 

Court date has been set for the 21st of November.

 

Welcome have paid all of their fees so I presume they are confident they will win this, which is filling me with dread!

 

It would be great if someone could run through how I should prepare for this, particularly what my arguments are.

 

Welcome have still not provided me with the following documentation: A legible copy of the contract and T&C, a copy of the default notice.

 

Does this affect my case in any way?

 

Thanks!

[AndyOrch]

Hi INDlover

 

Ok lets get back to the timetable......AQs done and filed,now have you had Notice of Allocation with the DJ Directions? Prepare WS exchange disclosure?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Duplicate

[INDlover]

Hey Andy,

 

I've received the notice of allocation.

 

Welcome had to pay their fees by yesterday so rang the court today to see if they have.

 

They have but have not submitted any documents they intend to use yet to the court.

 

I'm not sure if I have any documents to submit myself as the only thing I have,

 

Welcome sent to me (very low quality statement and illegible contract).

 

I'm not sure what the WS exchange disclosure is?

[AndyOrch]

Which Track will this placed in IND (their claim amount + your PT20CC combined?)Or which AQ did you complete N149 or N150?

 

Andy

[INDlover]

Hey Andy,

 

The case has been placed on the small claims track.

 

Thanks!

[AndyOrch]

Ah ok well SCT is very much directed by the DJ has he given any Directions within the Notice of Allocation?

[INDlover]

No just the time and date of the court appearance and a notice that any documents I wish to rely on in my defence should be copied to him no less than two weeks before the case is heard!

 

Thanks.

[AndyOrch]

Ok INDlover

 

There is very little prep involved in SCT Claims.

..the Notice of Allocation varies significantly to FT cases and WS and Standard Disclosure (N265) are dispensed with by the DJ

who pretty much directs all of the claim.

 

Disclosure in SCT is dealt with by disclosing a documents bundle comprising all your documents,

which is then served on the defendant and filed at court.

 

Before you finalise that bundle you need to prop up your PT20 Counter Claim..

 

.case law/Skeleton Argument and anything else you wish to rely on in support of your defence and counter claim.

 

REgards

 

Andy

[INDlover]

Ah ok! Well my counter claim has little evidence on my part to back up I think? It breaks down as follows:

 

Unfair charges - The statement they have sent me detailing the charges they have added to my account.

Mis-sold PPI - This is based upon my word, I believe.

Missing documents not allowing me to defend myself properly/even understand the nature of the loan - They're missing or illegible.

 

Should I send copies of everything I received from Welcome/IND through to the court? I'm not sure what else I have to prop up my claim except for assertions on my part.

 

Thanks!

[AndyOrch]

" Should I send copies of everything I received from Welcome/IND through to the court? "

 

Only documents referred to and of use to your claim should be contained within the bundle, once completed yes you need to serve your bundle on the Court and Claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Duplicate

[INDlover]

Ah ok, Thanks Andy. I'll send through the illegible contract and statement. I'll be back in touch in a couple of days as to how I actually prepare for this defence!

 

Thanks again for your help!

[INDlover]

Hi guys,

 

So I'm in court next week and just wanted to go over some final preparations.

 

Really just wondering how I can help my situation.

 

I wanted to run my documentation by you and see what you think of it.

 

I've attached a PDF with three images.

 

The images are the same quality as the ones I received from Welcome, as you can see they're pretty much illegible.

 

The first is my contract signed by me.

 

The second is another contract with no signatures of any kind.

 

The third is the terms and conditions, it looks like they apply to the second contract (matching footers at the base of the page) rather than mine.

 

Besides my statement (of a similar quality)

I have received no further documentation despite claiming in my defence that the quality of the documents was harming my ability to represent my case.

 

Can Welcome even take me to court if this is their only evidence?

 

Can I use the quality of these documents in my defence?

 

Any advice would be great!

 

Thanks for your time!

[AndyOrch]

Hi IND

 

I can just make out the agreement but very difficult to read.Just insist on them being illegible ...ask if the DJ can make them out.Focus your efforts Counter Claim and miss sold PPI

Oh and the best of luck for next week keep your nerve and state your case and if unsure of anything ask them to repeat it and if your not happy make it known. Don't forget to raise the matter of costs if it appears to be going your way.

 

Update your thread with the outcome.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[msted]

Did you get an outcome on this case? Would be very interested to know how you got on.

 

Thanks

[INDlover]

Hi guys, sorry for the delay in updating. The results were not good!

 

First time I went to court I arrived and the IND representative (not from the company itself) dumped a pile of documents in my hand, about 80 pages long,

literally 5 minutes before entreating the courtroom.

 

These included what appeared to be more legible versions of my contract (although I was so nervous and shocked they could have been anything).

 

They had hastily faxed them through to the court the night before, obviously having forgotten about the case and missing another deadline!

 

The judge decided to give them more time to prepare, even though they had missed their deadline

and also advised me to massively rethink my actions saying they weren't going to do me any good

and specifically mentioning that I should not be taking advice from forums 'such as the consumer action group' as sound legal advice.

 

She implied that while she was giving IND time she was basically doing it for my benefit.

 

The case was postponed for three months with a month for me to resubmit or alter my defence.

 

I chatted to the guy representing IND for about 30 minutes afterwards, he was actually very helpful

considering he was not allowed to give me answers in a lot of areas

and gave me the numbers for some legal charities that might be able to make the most of a bad situation.

 

I sought advice from a legal charity who advised that I would most likely be stuck with the CCJ and costs.

 

They moved to contact IND in an attempt to strike a deal for around half the amount owed (still more than the original debt)

but IND were having none of it.

 

I was advised to either file to pay a very small amount a month given my circumstances (self employed PhD student),

and contest the court fees based on my desire to end the dispute without going to court.

My other option was to file for a debt relief order.

 

We went to court for the second time,

I got left with a CCJ and fees, totalling over three times the original loan but was allowed to pay it back at a negligible rate,

which makes the whole thing seem rather pointless.

 

I'm still considering whether to apply for a debt relief order which would write off the debt

and have an effect as long lasting as the CCJ but feel I got what I deserved.

 

I tried to contact IND again to see if I could settle for over half the amount in a lump sum.

 

Something I thought they'd go for as it's going to take them many years to get even half the amount at this rate but they ignored my request.

 

It's a shame as after IND messed me around, consistently messed up, missed deadlines etc.

we didn't even make it to court for the first time until after the debt had gone statute barred!

 

All of this happened because I foolishly thought they had a leg to stand on.

They obviously didn't until I gave them that opportunity.

 

Oh well!

[dx100uk]

so what about you PPI/charges claims that wipe the debt out?

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Couple of points IND :-

 

The clock stopped on the SB question the day they issued the summons.Did you not object to them submitting evidence on the day ..neither party are allowed to submit evidence once their disclosure (N265) is submitted.

How did you amend your defence..and what has happened to your counter claim?

 

Success is not a guarantee and I refer you to my post 51, but you didnt role over and accept the claim you challenged it.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[INDlover]

@dx100uk - Perhaps if I had only claimed for those costs themselves it would have been fine but claiming for interest was directly called 'foolish' by the judge!

 

@andyorch - Yeah I did raise a concern saying that I felt that these documents had arrived too late for it to be fair and this led in part to the case being postponed. The judge wanted to give me time to go over the documents and 'rethink my decision'. Nah of course success is not a guarantee, I think earlier on in the thread I said that I fully expected to get the CCJ and have to pay and that anything else would be a bonus. No bonuses this time unfortunately! Thanks for all your help though guys, especially you Andy! You really taught me a lot and gave me the confidence to even consider trying to stand up for myself in the first place. To be honest I feel the amount I've been lumped with is pretty disgusting but that's the way these things go.

 

As an aside, after my first direct debit payment to IND they sent me a letter saying that the bank details they wanted me to pay it in to had changed, they appear to be going in to some sort of personal account now (the account is a persons name rather a business name)? Not the IND one? Is that above board?

[Jimmy Jangle]

What's the person's name?

[AndyOrch]

Inform the Court and request as there been a name change of the Judgment Creditor to an individual...state you will be holding payment until some kind of professional accountancy is restored.