required to appear at court, insurance requirements not kept, section 144a road traffic act, please help

[Neil RD]

hello,

I have been advised by a friend to join this site and explain to you for help and advice as I don't know where to turn and feel completely stitched up.

 

I received a letter the other day telling me I have to appear at Swansea magistrates court to answer a charge

that I am the registered keeper of a vehicle that does not meet insurance requirements cont. to section 144(A)1 of the road traffic act.

 

Firstly

I tried phoning swansea mag. to see about getting the case moved to Cardiff as I cant afford to get to swansea never mind afford to take a day off for it,

this failed as I have no contact number and never managed to get through to the right dept.

 

My car that my G/F uses had problems with the engine so was taken off the road whilst another engine was located,

my mate sold us a golf for pence just so she wasnt left without transport,

 

the insurance was transferred over to the golf while the sierra awaits a new engine,

the car was stored on my private drive with no engine and the disabled tax remained on it

 

I saw no need for a sorn as that would have meant we would have to surrender it until repaired and then re-apply etc.

 

The golf is now history and the sierra with it's new engine is back on the road...

 

then I get this letter saying I have to go to court,

 

until this I was not aware of this new law saying I had to still insure any car I own even if It's not being driven!

 

when did they sneak this in and how come they never informed me,

surely this is not legal and is classed as entrapment?

 

If a company offering a service changes their terms and conditions they are legally bound to inform us of any changes,

so why is this any different!

 

We are living on the breadline and struggling to make ends meet so the threat of any fines will tip us over the edge (not that anyone cares).

 

I have read some posts by others regarding this and they have said about a letter first offering a fine of 100 pounds... we have not had any such letter,

the first we hear about it is the court letter!

please help

[Conniff]

Welcome to the forum.

 

What I can say won't make you happy I'm afraid. Continuous insurance has been with us since November last year and definately wasn't 'sneaked' in, so won't be accepted if you say you didn't know.

 

No one has yet acceptably explained what it is supposed to achieve other than fatter profits for the already rich rip-off insurance companies.

[Neil RD]

I was not informed about this new law, nor did I receive any letter offering me the chance to pay 100 pounds!

[Bang!]

The only thing I could suggest is you contact the DVLA and ask why you never received the £100 offer letter, and ask they return to this option.

 

Its unlikely to work, but there is no harm in trying.

 

As for not being informed of the change in the law - for obvious reasons ignorance of the law has never been a defence. However when you do end up in court, your ingnorance of a new law, your financial circumstances, and the reply to the above letter may reduce the fine.

 

The DVLA now really need to be watched out for, as they are being heavily pushed as a revenue earner.

[Neil RD]

what sort of fine can be expected for this, at the bottom of the letter it says upto 1000 pounds level3 ???

If they fine us this much then we will have to plead hardship as we are already upto our eye's in debt

Edited June 2, 2012 by Neil RD

[Bang!]

I am on my phone so its a pain to check - but that will be the statutory maximum and would only be likely to apply if you had many identical offences previously.

 

If you look up the road traffic act named in the letter it will mention the year of the act. You can the look it up on the governments legislation site - and at the end of the act there will be schedules - this will give the level of fine as a number from 1-6.

 

You can the see how it compares to similar offences to get an idea of how its at the trivial end of the scale.

 

If you appear in court and explain the entire circumstances it will reduce the fine. Its not unheard of for a good explanation getting a fine lower than a fixed penalty - and as you have low income the fine can be paid up.

 

Regarding your debt you mention - have you reclaimed PPI and charges on them?

[Neil RD]

here's another point the letter is worded a "mechanically propelled vehicle", correct me if i'm wrong but if a vehicle has no engine it is no longer mechanically propelled thus is not a mechanically propelled vehicle but just a pile of scrap metal?

[Neil RD]

sorry posted my reply same time as you.

our debts are not credit card/loan related so no PPI is not applicable.

debts are due to trying self-employment in the construction industry when the recession hit us first time round and 6 months of no money coming in. rent, council tax, bank overdraft charges, owed NI fee's

[Bang!]

You now have an unlikely to succeed defence to add to the above mitigation.

 

I have no idea of the current criteria for Legal Aid - but try asking that one to a solicitor.

 

From memory s143 - 145 covered car insurance and i cannot recall that definition being in the act. Although there was no 144A the last time i read it and it seems strange wording to use if not included.

 

Some motoring offences in the past were considered to be too trivial for legal aid - although Art 6 ECHR makes no distiction other than something like 'when in the interests of justice'.

 

I would suspect as the DVLA are being pushed as a nice little earner that legal aid as a potential drain is unavailable.

 

There may be information covering this offence on other internet forums specifically aimed at motoring such as that one starting with P that sounds french. Ifs a fairly new offence and you are the first I have read about being taken to court.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Sorry to hijack this thread but is this for real ?

 

My sons car ( but its in my name) has been parked on my private drive for 4yrs whilst he has been traveling. I have sorned it every year.

 

Does this mean I can expect a letter about no Insurance.

[2ltr16valve]

Sorry to hijack this thread but is this for real ?

 

My sons car ( but its in my name) has been parked on my private drive for 4yrs whilst he has been traveling. I have sorned it every year.

 

Does this mean I can expect a letter about no Insurance.

 

No as its registered SORN. This thread is because the Registered Keeper did not SORN the vehicle, as it was temp for repairs.

 

Its a stupid law, only placed to make more ££ and nothing else.

[wheresmyhairgone]

"until this I was not aware of this new law saying I had to still insure any car I own even if It's not being driven!"

Ok thanks I obviously miss read this thread, I nearly had a heart attack:jaw:

[Flirty]

Hi, Its the first i've also heard of this,but would like to ask.. My car is kept on a public road,has tax & an mot,yet i dont have insurance at the moment & i dont plan on getting some in the next month either.

I am not driving the vehicle & was under the impression i am not breaking the law by doing this. Am i allowed or not please? Slightly confused. Good luck in court aswell ) Thanks

[Michael Browne]

Hi, Its the first i've also heard of this,but would like to ask.. My car is kept on a public road,has tax & an mot,yet i dont have insurance at the moment & i dont plan on getting some in the next month either.

I am not driving the vehicle & was under the impression i am not breaking the law by doing this. Am i allowed or not please? Slightly confused. Good luck in court aswell ) Thanks

 

See Here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?CID=Continuous_Insurance&PLA=DM&CRE=Furl

[Conniff]

Your car 'must' be continuously insured if you are using it or not if it is kept on the public road. The only time insurance can be legally terminated or suspended is if the car is delcared SORN and not on a public road.

 

One of the most stupid and sensless pieces of legislation ever brought out and achieves absolutely nothing except the insurance companies are making a killing.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Conniff

[cherrybyte]

Welcome to the forum.

 

What I can say won't make you happy I'm afraid. Continuous insurance has been with us since November last year and definately wasn't 'sneaked' in, so won't be accepted if you say you didn't know.

 

No one has yet acceptably explained what it is supposed to achieve other than fatter profits for the already rich rip-off insurance companies.

I've received the same. story is as follows.

 

Motorcycle (Old, 1978) bought in the U.K. for the below purpose.

 

I'm of East European heritage and the bike has ended up with family in the Ukraine (in a farm barn) awaiting my arrival in May so I can spend the summer touring Ukraine/Belarus/Turkey

 

 

Bike got there Nov. 2013 in the back of a van. Customs had no interest as the bike is old (not wise to bumble about on a flashy bike in those areas) and came UK/France/Germany/Poland and it will be shipped back to U.K. by van approx. Sept 2014 so no question of permanent export and well within 12 months. I have Polish family in Belarus/Ukraine/Poland and have often spent time out there.

 

I received a SORN request in Nov. 2013 but sent them a letter saying 'no can do bike outside U.K.' they seem to accept that (obviously) but came up with section 144 and the summons. I must state at this point I'm not prepared to falsely SORN, I'm retired with time on my hands so will turn up at Swansea on the due date pleading not guilty. So as I see it:

 

 

(a) By issuing the summons the DVLA is claiming jurisdiction outside the UK.

 

 

(b) I cannot apply for UK insurance if the bike is not within the territorial limits of the U.K. And even so many companies have area/time conditions concerning the 'Green Card' which would not, in my case meet their criteria. I would certainly at some point be technically uninsured during my Holiday. It will be my choice/duty to conform to requirements of the country concerned, It has nothing to do with the DVLA.